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Thread: Ni - What the hell is it?

  1. #561
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    My understanding and experience of Ni is that it's like a haphazardly incomplete mathematical proof. Ni can't/won't proceed line by line. 99% of the time the answer appears and Ni has no interest in proof itself, because it has the answer. It's agonising to have to go back and explain the reasoning line by line. In most cases Ni cannot provide the proof that leads to the answer, so it won't. Only when the Ni truly cares about the answer will it seek to find some proof, and the proof-seeking methods will very likely be unorthodox, random, and probably illogical to some degree.

    The other thing about Ni is it can link and connect the most maddeningly granular of details and somehow create/access relevance or elucidation therein. The detail itself is so granular it may as well be invisible, to the point that, good luck verbalising it.

    A question for MBTI experts: Would any fellow INXJs consider Ni as absolutely dependent upon (a) context? Is the nature of Ni intertexual?
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  2. #562
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windoverlake View Post
    A question for MBTI experts: Would any fellow INXJs consider Ni as absolutely dependent upon (a) context? Is the nature of Ni intertexual?
    Yes. Ni is very contextual. Ne is cross-contextual.

    The reason Ni loses the "detail" is that Ni isn't thinking in terms of building an intricate structure of logic. Rather, it has a huge library of manuals describing how everything (that you've experienced) works. When you see something that appears to work like something in your library, the answer "just appears". There aren't any words for it because most people don't use Ni, and there are no useful common words to specify "kinds of ways in which things work". The closest thing in the real world is the concept of "design patterns" which apply for things like engineering and software design, where the patterns classify kinds of problems and their typical solutions. For an INFJ, the real world analogy would be the DSM: if you see a bunch of behavioral traits, you know what the rest of the traits are. Typology is also similar: if you see the pattern of a type, you can predict several other elements of the type's behavior.

    Ni types, however, can occasionally seem to have huge leaps of logic like Ne types, but the way it happens is different. Ne types ALWAYS hop to other contexts. Ni types generally don't hop, but sometimes a pattern that applies in one context happens to be very apt in a different context, hence you'll occasionally see the hops in Ni types, too.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yes. Ni is very contextual. Ne is cross-contextual.

    The reason Ni loses the "detail" is that Ni isn't thinking in terms of building an intricate structure of logic. Rather, it has a huge library of manuals describing how everything (that you've experienced) works. When you see something that appears to work like something in your library, the answer "just appears". There aren't any words for it because most people don't use Ni, and there are no useful common words to specify "kinds of ways in which things work". The closest thing in the real world is the concept of "design patterns" which apply for things like engineering and software design, where the patterns classify kinds of problems and their typical solutions. For an INFJ, the real world analogy would be the DSM: if you see a bunch of behavioral traits, you know what the rest of the traits are. Typology is also similar: if you see the pattern of a type, you can predict several other elements of the type's behavior.
    That's a great analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Ni types, however, can occasionally seem to have huge leaps of logic like Ne types, but the way it happens is different. Ne types ALWAYS hop to other contexts. Ni types generally don't hop, but sometimes a pattern that applies in one context happens to be very apt in a different context, hence you'll occasionally see the hops in Ni types, too.
    I can't help but feel the Ne-hopping is oftentimes too playful and distracting. It does have the power to get me out of ruts, but sometimes I wish they'd give me some warning, just enough time for me to put paperweights on a few things.
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    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windoverlake View Post
    I can't help but feel the Ne-hopping is oftentimes too playful and distracting. It does have the power to get me out of ruts, but sometimes I wish they'd give me some warning, just enough time for me to put paperweights on a few things.
    Nope. Sorry. That's how they think. Why would you need warning? They're Ne. Duh. They're like the Spanish Inquisition!
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Nope. Sorry. That's how they think. Why would you need warning? They're Ne. Duh. They're like the Spanish Inquisition!
    Well, I did say sometimes.

    But you're right, they are The Spanish Inquisition. It's just, like, sometimes, I'm like, please, not the comfy chair again.

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    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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  7. #567
    Vaguely Precise Array Seymour's Avatar
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    Stop, or I will say Ni to you, a second time!


    Seriously, though, it seems to me like there's a continuum in how much people "chunk" based on experience over time and experience across contexts. I'd rank them:

    • Se: Low across-time, low across-contexts
    • Ne: Low across-time, high across-contexts
    • Si: High across-time, low across-contexts
    • Ni: High across-time, high across-contexts


    In a way, I'd say that J types tend to perceive things based on consistency and repetition across time. So, something that is comprehensible for a J type looks like light writing:



    Whereas SJs focus on things that repeat over time in the same context (that that's what tends to become "right" and other things "wrong"), NJs focus on things that repeat over time and possibly across contexts.

    That means that if someone starts repeating a pattern an NJ will quickly perceive it. So that's a big win as far as perceiving things and being able to plan accordingly. They also tend to find deviation from the expected pattern distracting. It's as though they have a kind of persistence of vision, that enables them to be tuned into both the historical patterns, and the current momentum.

    Something a bit more chaotic over time, though:



    Is going to be distracting and chaotic (although the example above is pretty even, really). But for someone who tracks the light pen as it happens, relatively random is not significantly more distracting than non-random. An SP might always be tracking the point where it is (and how it might be tuned). An NP might be tracking where the light pen might go from here (partially based on possibilities based on other contexts). In either case, perceivers are less like to be perturbed by reduced predictability, but may be blind to repetition and momentum in some cases.
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    - Ne is like following a piece of string - you keep tugging on it, and you keep following it, excited by where it might take you or what it might do
    - Ni is like considering the representation of the string rather than the string itself - you shift the way you look at it, thus changing it's properties
    Hello
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    Senior Member Array Noon's Avatar
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    This might be a little off-topic, but what function is this?

    “Half of what the songs are about is the subconscious,” she states in her bio. “Ideas of things happening. A lot of it is like daydreaming, dreaming when you’re awake, but tired; a lot of stories come from that world.” As a result her lyrics are often cryptic, walking a thin line between mixed metaphors and just-decipherable details. It’s no surprise she finds stimulus in the surreal, dream-like films of David Lynch.
    ‘I guess many songs are about looking for something to spend time, and to fill the body, to avoid loneliness and the physical functions or dysfunctions of the body. It’s one step forward and one step back.’
    Her distinctive writing process is at its most striking in ‘Seven’, where a succession of stories – some real, some imagined, but all tangentially related to that number – are obliquely referenced. That’s the way Karin writes; just enough detail to sketch the outline and splash some colour without becoming mired in anything too specific.
    “I prefer lyrics that are like that,” she says, “I like to keep it as minimal as possible. I like films the same way, ones with very little dialogue, such as the Finnish director Aki Kaurismäki (Leningrad Cowboys Go America), I think he’s fantastic.
    I thought Ni but don't know anymore. She is very private and I think e9 (e5 as an alternative).

  10. #570
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    This might be a little off-topic, but what function is this?

    I thought Ni but don't know anymore. She is very private and I think e9 (e5 as an alternative).
    Not really enough info. Almost certainly INxx though. Either INFJ or INFP would be most likely in my estimation, but leaning towards INFJ. INFPs, while subtle, don't tend to go for being deliberately mysterious and obscure.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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