User Tag List

Page 49 of 92 FirstFirst ... 39474849505159 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 912

Thread: Ni - What the hell is it?

  1. #481
    Junior Member Array
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Dominant Ni to me feels like "haze" in the brain. It's constantly running and analyzing, but the thoughts and images it brings up is abstract. Sometimes I will analyze a situation and detect a hidden pattern or meaning in it, out of nowhere, but it's abstract. It can be concrete, but I won't consciously know what made the connection. I will then subconsciously associate this pattern with an image, and it will "feel" right to me, but if you asked me to put it in words, you'd think I belonged in the loony bin, because it will make no sense. A lot of it is subconscious thought garbage, unless it's grounded by Te or Se.

    Other times, it's a sense of "just knowing" how things will turn out, because you've already intuited it in your mind without doing the work. The Ni images are being projected onto the outside world - they become "one", in a sense. This abstract idea connects with that abstract idea, and boom, you suddenly "know".

    You don't "use" it, it's just something that runs in the background, but it guides you. It's like a map through which you navigate.

    To clarify how it works in the real world, in developing a new skill, I will have a sense of "knowing" what is required of me without being directed or reading instructions, and I'll pick it up fairly quickly.

    Other times, I will interpret the things people say or do to mean something that seems totally far-fetched, but I'm usually right. I met a girl who told me she was heavily into photography - and from this I came to the conclusion that she had a crippling personality disorder. As time went on and we got to know one another, she became extremely clingy and attempted to destroy my friendships.

  2. #482
    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ni
    Posts
    13,070

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by melebula View Post
    Dominant Ni to me feels like "haze" in the brain. It's constantly running and analyzing, but the thoughts and images it brings up is abstract. Sometimes I will analyze a situation and detect a hidden pattern or meaning in it, out of nowhere, but it's abstract. It can be concrete, but I won't consciously know what made the connection. I will then subconsciously associate this pattern with an image, and it will "feel" right to me, but if you asked me to put it in words, you'd think I belonged in the loony bin, because it will make no sense. A lot of it is subconscious thought garbage, unless it's grounded by Te or Se.

    Other times, it's a sense of "just knowing" how things will turn out, because you've already intuited it in your mind without doing the work. The Ni images are being projected onto the outside world - they become "one", in a sense. This abstract idea connects with that abstract idea, and boom, you suddenly "know".

    You don't "use" it, it's just something that runs in the background, but it guides you. It's like a map through which you navigate.

    To clarify how it works in the real world, in developing a new skill, I will have a sense of "knowing" what is required of me without being directed or reading instructions, and I'll pick it up fairly quickly.

    Other times, I will interpret the things people say or do to mean something that seems totally far-fetched, but I'm usually right. I met a girl who told me she was heavily into photography - and from this I came to the conclusion that she had a crippling personality disorder. As time went on and we got to know one another, she became extremely clingy and attempted to destroy my friendships.
    Borderline personality disorder.

    How does your tertiary guide you?
    "But you forget that there is one value that is greater than all others: human freedom. Because no matter how perfectly you set the world up for humanity, they will always rebel simply to exert their own selves. You cannot win."

  3. #483
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Borderline personality disorder.
    Please explain how a personality disorder that describes how one mishandles emotions applies to what melebula wrote.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #484
    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ni
    Posts
    13,070

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Please explain how a personality disorder that describes how one mishandles emotions applies to what melebula wrote.
    "As time went on and we got to know one another, she became extremely clingy and attempted to destroy my friendships."
    Cite:
    The perception of impending separation or rejection, or the loss of external structure, can lead to profound changes in self-image, affect, cognition, and behavior. They experience intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger even when faced with a realistic time-limited separation or when there are unavoidable changes in plans (e.g., sudden despair in reaction to a clinician’s announcing the end of the hour; panic or fury when someone important to them is just a few minutes late or must cancel an appointment). They may believe that this “abandonment” implies they are “bad.” These abandonment fears are related to an intolerance of being alone and a need to have other people with them. Relationships and the person’s emotion may often be characterized as being shallow.
    Borderline Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central
    "But you forget that there is one value that is greater than all others: human freedom. Because no matter how perfectly you set the world up for humanity, they will always rebel simply to exert their own selves. You cannot win."

  5. #485
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    inxp
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,096

    Default

    Perhaps Ne is more apparent to identify because it can immediately patterns and connections between whatever it encounters in the world. We look at Ne-doms and their uber-creative, zany antics.

    Ni is like that except that it tries to create a coherent whole of it all, which might be an impossible endeavor. It makes us capable of achieving a sense of balance or be completely nuts - and probably in some manner both.
    The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas. H.G. WELLS
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. FEYNMAN

    If this is monkey pee, you're on your own.SCULLY

  6. #486
    alchemist Array Legion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,712

    Default

    I noticed myself use Ni a couple times the past few days. I know I was using Ni because right after using it, I had an epiphany that I had been using Ni.

    Basically, what happened, was I was organising plans for the day with a friend, but it wasn't making sense to me what we were actually going to be doing, where we were meeting etc. Basically, something was missing from the picture, and I could experience this "something is missing" feeling. I then used some kind of extroverted judgement function to inquire of the other person how it was going to work, but I did it in a really messy way, asking lots of questions that didn't quite get at what I wanted, indicating my unfamiliarity with the Ni function.

  7. #487
    ⒺⓉⒷ Array Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,364

    Default

    Still trying to clarify my understanding of it, going back over stuff I've read.

    I should clarify that introverted iNtuition is not inferring from a subjective pattern (as I may have characterized it earlier). Both Ni and Ne compare data with patterns stored in memory. Ne looks at data in terms of the patterns, while Ni infers from [elsewhere] within what’s been left out of the given pattern.

    Lenore had said “For INJ’s, the patterns aren’t ‘out there’ in the world, waiting to be discovered [like an ENP physician putting together a whole single disesase syndrome from several unexplained symptoms]. They’re part of us—the way we make sense of the riot of information and energy impinging on our systems.” (p.225)
    “Pattern” here refers to two different things: the initial parttern being observed, which for either function is objective; and then, for Ni, there are internal (and likely unconscious) elements, [making the function introverted or subjective] that are used as “alternative possibilities” to guage the situation by.

    One place I was getting hung up, was that “alternate possibilities” we usually think of as Ne. But again, Ne derives it’s possibilities from an external pattern itself, while Ni looks at the external pattern in terms of these internal impressions.

    This is why, I find, INTJ’s look at type theory ideas so differently than I do. Unless they’ve already believed in an idea, they usually just appear to often scoff at new ideas (or even some existing, popular ones), like the big debate we had not long ago in the Tandem Names thread.
    Lenore continues “A disease syndrome is a useful construct, but that’s all it is—an aggregate of observations attached to a label, telling us what to see and how to deal with it. They’re merely arbitrary, derived from a particular view of life. For this reason, they can trap us into holding that view—say, that physicians are in the business of cure rather than prevention—without being aware of its effects”.

    I see just an idea of how one system or set of categories might “possibly” fit another, and they just choose to see it another way, through other “possibilities” not being mentioned. I will see their possibilities, as just that, another possibility, but the ones I’m suggesting seem to fit better, as determined by Ti, so that function “nails it down”, as I’ve heard described.
    This is likely one reason why INFJ’s are not quite as cynical as INTJ’s about these things. Even though they share the dom. Ni, INFJ’s have the tertiary Ti which identifies binding principles like that. What the INTJ nails a possibility down with would be Te (its practical usefulness); hence, seeming rigidly against something TiNe comes up with, and yet, at the same time, they are the ones in a way being more “open” to certain things. (This goes into the whole thing Personality Junkie discusses and Lenore alludes to later on the same page, regarding INJ’s being the true “perceiving” types, ⦅like ENP’s⦆, and INP’s being the true “judging” types).

    So the example Lenore gives (p223) is someone wondering why people feel so strongly about getting a good tan. You look at the larger contexts; which in this case are the historical causes of this phonomena that we can remember reading of. On one hand, a tan suggested manual labor (from being out in the sun), but then pale skin came to suggest labor from working inside. However, neither [conflicting] reason is any longer relvant today. It’s just something that has stuck, as being “attractive”.
    What I notice here, is that no conclusion is really reached, and the goal seems to be simply to raise a question in itself.

    I guess this would be Ni in its purest form, without judgment filling it in. It is merely a perception, or observation, after all. We have often portrayed Ni as “foreseeing” something, but that’s only when it is working with a judgment function, which can rationally draw a conclusion from the data; especially when it comes to time elements, such as the predictable or recurring, and to determine rules or models that determine something.

    I used to wonder about tans, and the way I went about it was one day putting it together with race. On one hand, dark skin was seen in a negative light. Yet, you always see in Western culture all of these light people trying to get dark. Some tans are so deep, they’re actually as dark as many moderate toned black people. I too asked “what was that about?”, but then surmised it was likely some sort of “shadow” dynamic. (This was years before I knew Jungian terminology, so I didn’t use that word, though I had heard enough about openly hating what we are subconsciously jealous of).

    I looked at the pattern I was seeing in terms of other patterns: racial issues, and then psychological dynamics, and then put together a hypothesis that seemed to explain it, and figuring “that’s probably it”, was satisfied, and then put the question to rest. I only looked within for the sensory and logical data; not for the possibilities themselves, which only were conveyed through the S+T facts.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas
    Likes Z Buck McFate, Eilonwy liked this post

  8. #488
    ⒺⓉⒷ Array Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,364

    Default

    A great sense I got of introverted iNtuition at work was from this blogger’s http://dananthonyobrien.wordpress.com/2011/01 take on the Jacob Riis “Baxter Street Court” photo (which I had years ago run across and was intrigued by, sparking off an interest in the FIve Points slum of "Gangs of NY" fame, where this was located. I in fact worked literally yards from the site for a decade and never knew it).

    This was a photo of squalor in what was being held as an example of “tenement life” in 19th century NY slums, but I later found the example shown was really a converted distillery and not a real tenement, as many other nonresididential buidings were being converted (which is part of what created the whole problem Riis was exposing). So what had originally struck me was how different it looked from a real NYC tenement.

    This other blogger, however, notices a lot of different things, and observes it from a totally different angle.
    He suggests that a photo like this (that he saw as part of a series shown in some presentation, apparently) “contains symbolic use of lighting (amazing considering the primitive level of the technology at the time) and spectacular use of mise en scène.” [Mise-en-scène is an expression used to describe the design aspects of a theatre or film production, which essentially means "visual theme" or "telling a story"—both in visually artful ways through storyboarding, cinematography and stage design, and in poetically artful ways through direction.]

    In ‘Baxter Street Court, NY’ for example the children appear illuminated while the adults are, either a dark silhouette or, returning into the gloom. The dark figure overlooking the scene seems almost regal in his surveillance of his dominion, there may be some pun intended on ‘court’. His darkness and bearing may suggest an inability to relinquish either his grasp on the ‘Old World’ or indeed on the next generation. The division of the scene by the clothes-line however leaves the picture a hopefulness that supplants the foreboding mystery figure.

    He likens both the man, as well as the clothes lines and “the abandoned cart in the foreground” to some fictional characters he’s discussing.

    I had noticed the man, but never knew what to make of him. What I did see is that it’s supposed to be a picture of squalor, but this guy looks kind of rich, with his top hat and suit; like someone who would fit in better in the classy mansions further uptown. Who is this?
    I figure he’s probably the owner of the place. Probably drawn to the scene by the photographer being there. (And it’s true that the pose he’s making looks authoritative). After all, it would be the living and/or working conditions he’s maintaining that are being exposed, and threatened throughout the area at that time.
    He does have a spookiness to him, and perhaps that could be part of the “spiritual” sense people I showed it to picked up.

    So this blogger is reading internally derived meanings into the external data and coming up with conclusions that never would have dawned on me. He also pays more attention to visual detail, which is the extraverted Sensing that works in tandem with introverted iNtution. This is the less conscious version of N that has likely drawn me to see some emotion-producing meaning in the photo, but my normal extraverted iNtution —in conjunction with the internalized factual data of introverted Sensing— then tries to figure out where it was, what it was, why the architecture looks the way it does, etc.
    Again, I’m looking for the external pattern to match it all to. He’s adding impressions from within, and totally missing from the patterns I draw. (You can see here why in the new Cognitive Styles model, the Ne/Si perspective is aptly named “Inquiring Awareness”, while SeNi is “Realizing Awareness”).

    It took me time to even notice there was only one man there. (I was focused on the building). I at first only remembered women and children near the door under the steps, and later, I thought there were two or three better dressed people posing on the steps.

    (I believe where his impression went too far is in his interpretation of “court”. He may not have realized that “court” back then simply means what we today would call a “back yard”, and the old fire insurance maps I consulted showed such a “rear court” at that address. Though it’s possible that it could be both, and that the term came in handy for such a dual meaning.
    I know in Biblical debate, I have seen where people will read something into texts like that, and it looks just like that: coming up something out of the blue that is not there. While Christianity is often regarded as very F or even FJ, I believe much of the doctrine has generally been set by NTJ leaders).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas
    Likes Eilonwy liked this post

  9. #489
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    inxp
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,096

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by melebula View Post
    Dominant Ni to me feels like "haze" in the brain. It's constantly running and analyzing, but the thoughts and images it brings up is abstract. Sometimes I will analyze a situation and detect a hidden pattern or meaning in it, out of nowhere, but it's abstract. It can be concrete, but I won't consciously know what made the connection. I will then subconsciously associate this pattern with an image, and it will "feel" right to me, but if you asked me to put it in words, you'd think I belonged in the loony bin, because it will make no sense. A lot of it is subconscious thought garbage, unless it's grounded by Te or Se.

    Other times, it's a sense of "just knowing" how things will turn out, because you've already intuited it in your mind without doing the work. The Ni images are being projected onto the outside world - they become "one", in a sense. This abstract idea connects with that abstract idea, and boom, you suddenly "know".

    You don't "use" it, it's just something that runs in the background, but it guides you. It's like a map through which you navigate.

    To clarify how it works in the real world, in developing a new skill, I will have a sense of "knowing" what is required of me without being directed or reading instructions, and I'll pick it up fairly quickly.

    Other times, I will interpret the things people say or do to mean something that seems totally far-fetched, but I'm usually right. I met a girl who told me she was heavily into photography - and from this I came to the conclusion that she had a crippling personality disorder. As time went on and we got to know one another, she became extremely clingy and attempted to destroy my friendships.
    Great description here!
    You probably picked up her heavy focus on photography feeling like something different than intellectual inspiration, but expressing a kind of personality imbalance prone to addiction.

    Ni has a lot to do with processing speculation, which is also important information to deal with in reality. It isn't fact based and in many cases cannot be because it is so future oriented where the facts have not yet occurred.

    Even if I have a strong intuitive impulse which can inform decisions, I try to keep that type of data separate from "fact", and instead treat it something more akin to statistical possibilities. In the same way that people can get facts wrong, people can also get speculation "wrong", but that doesn't mean that it isn't extremely valuable.
    The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas. H.G. WELLS
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. FEYNMAN

    If this is monkey pee, you're on your own.SCULLY

  10. #490
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,664

    Default

    That's a pretty good synopsis, Eric.

    I'd say that for Ne, the patterns it sees are "just facts" out there in the real world. Ne doms in particular seem to regard them as objective facts because they can say, "Look! Data!" and while they know that correlation is not causation, they almost cannot help but believe whatever "obvious" point the data appears to be making.

    For Ni, the patterns, as you say, are internal. Just as Si has an internal library of concrete understandings of the world, Ni has an internal library of abstract understandings. These understandings pre-exist the concrete instances to which they might be applied.

    The Ne patterns answer the questions of who/what/where. The Ni patterns answer the questions of how/why. Ne usually sees a singular meaning of the external pattern (via Si's influence, perhaps?) or perhaps no meaning at all ("it's just true"). Ni sees multiple possible meanings, and uses concrete points to eliminate the "possible" meanings that cannot be true. This is how you get the example of Ni in your second post, where the individual appears to apply TOO MUCH meaning to what is there.

    There is of course no answer to "which one is better". The real knowledge to be gleaned here is 1) they look at different problem spaces, asking very different questions, and 2) which problem space has which priorities.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

Page 49 of 92 FirstFirst ... 39474849505159 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [INTJ] What the hell is an INTJ?
    By Haphazard in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 12-07-2012, 06:04 PM
  2. Naomi Klein: What the hell is her problem, anyway?
    By pure_mercury in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-21-2009, 05:37 PM
  3. What the hell is going on in this picture?
    By RiderOnTheStorm in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 06-08-2009, 01:52 AM
  4. What the hell is going on? (Conspiracy)
    By Fluffywolf in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-02-2009, 07:10 AM
  5. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-28-2009, 12:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •