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  1. #471
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't know if that describes any function well. Ni is more like meaninglessness followed by sudden insight. Sort of like dumping all the puzzle pieces onto the table in a jumble, then suddenly knowing what it all is going to look like when put together. The view isn't blank at the outset, it just doesn't have any obvious meaning or coherence.
    Yes! Great explanation.

    @Magic Qwan just now I edited and when I hit "save" my iPad seemed to freeze or be doing nothing. Yet, it was only inactive on the surface. It was actually doing more than I care to put into words. Ni is much like that. The blankness occurs when "the program" is running. Often the Ni user cant put into words whats happening. There really should be a " Please Wait" sign that appears on our foreheads when this is happening!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #472
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't know if that describes any function well. Ni is more like meaninglessness followed by sudden insight. Sort of like dumping all the puzzle pieces onto the table in a jumble, then suddenly knowing what it all is going to look like when put together. The view isn't blank at the outset, it just doesn't have any obvious meaning or coherence.
    Yes, THAT is my experience.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  3. #473
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Yes! Great explanation.

    @Magic Qwan just now I edited and when I hit "save" my iPad seemed to freeze or be doing nothing. Yet, it was only inactive on the surface. It was actually doing more than I care to put into words. Ni is much like that. The blankness occurs when "the program" is running. Often the Ni user cant put into words whats happening. There really should be a " Please Wait" sign that appears on our foreheads when this is happening!
    Hence why I frustrate people. They interrupt the process and I never get to the insight part. I've found that if a task is really really important, I should work on it ALONE. My emotional side draws me out to want to help people and want to make them feel better and not hurt. Then my then my logical side can find the best way to reach that goal after a deep analysis of all the facts.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
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    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  4. #474
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Everyone gets those "a ha!" insights. That isn't Ni or Ne. It's just human.

    The way to differentiate the perceiving functions is to understand what they're typically looking at. Se is looking at concrete reality in the moment, aware of it to a point that would amaze non-Se types if it could be fully conveyed. Si types are looking at their internal understanding of concrete reality, to the point that they experience that internal concrete reality far more strongly than the external version. Ne types look at the patterns in the external world; not at things so much as how the things are organized, what they connect to. Ni instead looks at internal patterns that (to Ni) describe all that is important about external reality.

    In practice, Ni does one thing very well that the other perceiving functions don't do: it synthesizes ideas. It is in fact the results of this synthesis that the Ni type remembers as "the truth". The reason that Ni ends up seeming so much more odd than the other functions is that these synthesized ideas are not easily articulated (i.e., conveyed in words); rather, pieces of these ideas can be conveyed as they manifest in the real world. For instance, an Ni physicist doesn't typically memorize formulas, but rather remembers how things fit together in a non-verbal sort of way, and uses formulas to convey those "how things fit together" ideas in specific instances.

    The part that Coriolis is talking about above is the act of synthesis: you look at something, it doesn't make sense, but you keep on looking, juggling what you seen in your head, and suddenly something clicks and it all makes sense. And the resulting "makes sense" isn't some sort of factoid understanding, but a kind of understanding that necessarily implies a whole bunch of other truths that are not immediately visible. E.g., suddenly understanding the concept of gravity as not only a force that makes things fall to the ground, but also the force that makes the planets go around the sun, makes a pendulum operate, makes rivers flow, and even the force that makes helium-filled balloons fall up, and so on. Another way to look at it is that while all types get "a ha!" events, Ni types seem to be very skilled at making them happen, by habitually synthesizing ideas.

    Interestingly, we Ni types can detect other Ni types via this synthetic understanding: we only need to explain a couple of essential parts of an idea, and the other Ni types instantly understand all the implications. Non-Ni types don't respond that way. Even Ne types who understand the basic idea don't respond that way, but instead branch out on tangents an Ni type wouldn't follow. This isn't to say that there is something inherently smarter or more intelligent in Ni types, just that the connection in terms of understanding ideas is clear. (And, like the Babel Fish, such mutual understanding doesn't really guarantee that the Ni types get along.)
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #475
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oaky View Post
    I want to rephrase,

    Ni tends to form in the manner an individual sees a scenario or situation. It is the abstract understanding that is subjective to the individual. This formulates the basis of perceptions and how it alters. So for example: An Ni user may see the idea of a dangerous man as a misunderstood man.

    Similarly, Si is the sensorial understanding or experience that is subjective to the individual. This will formulate in the senses and how it is altered upon the individual. So for example: An Si user may see a baby as a beautiful object that incites a pleasant subjective sensory experience.

    Ne however, is the formulation of a scenario or situation in an abstract form without the subjective alterations of how the individual sees it. This would mean that if an individual were to see an object or scenario, it formulates connections with other objects or scenarios. The perception would not be altered. So for the example of the dangerous man: An Ne user may see the dangerous man and the backstory to how the dangerous man became dangerous. (His past history, psychology, etc.) The dangerous man is still dangerous.

    Similarly, Se is without the subjective alterations of what Si is. It is pure and unchanged sensory information that the body itself is biologically exposed to feeling. It is not altered by the subjective mind. So for the example of the baby: An Se user will see the baby as it is and would more often than not (without the judging functions), experience no appeal in it.
    This is similar my understanding of the perceiving functions. I like how you have worded everything.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  6. #476
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Everyone gets those "a ha!" insights. That isn't Ni or Ne. It's just human.

    The way to differentiate the perceiving functions is to understand what they're typically looking at. Se is looking at concrete reality in the moment, aware of it to a point that would amaze non-Se types if it could be fully conveyed. Si types are looking at their internal understanding of concrete reality, to the point that they experience that internal concrete reality far more strongly than the external version. Ne types look at the patterns in the external world; not at things so much as how the things are organized, what they connect to. Ni instead looks at internal patterns that (to Ni) describe all that is important about external reality.

    In practice, Ni does one thing very well that the other perceiving functions don't do: it synthesizes ideas. It is in fact the results of this synthesis that the Ni type remembers as "the truth". The reason that Ni ends up seeming so much more odd than the other functions is that these synthesized ideas are not easily articulated (i.e., conveyed in words); rather, pieces of these ideas can be conveyed as they manifest in the real world. For instance, an Ni physicist doesn't typically memorize formulas, but rather remembers how things fit together in a non-verbal sort of way, and uses formulas to convey those "how things fit together" ideas in specific instances.

    The part that Coriolis is talking about above is the act of synthesis: you look at something, it doesn't make sense, but you keep on looking, juggling what you seen in your head, and suddenly something clicks and it all makes sense. And the resulting "makes sense" isn't some sort of factoid understanding, but a kind of understanding that necessarily implies a whole bunch of other truths that are not immediately visible. E.g., suddenly understanding the concept of gravity as not only a force that makes things fall to the ground, but also the force that makes the planets go around the sun, makes a pendulum operate, makes rivers flow, and even the force that makes helium-filled balloons fall up, and so on. Another way to look at it is that while all types get "a ha!" events, Ni types seem to be very skilled at making them happen, by habitually synthesizing ideas.

    Interestingly, we Ni types can detect other Ni types via this synthetic understanding: we only need to explain a couple of essential parts of an idea, and the other Ni types instantly understand all the implications. Non-Ni types don't respond that way. Even Ne types who understand the basic idea don't respond that way, but instead branch out on tangents an Ni type wouldn't follow. This isn't to say that there is something inherently smarter or more intelligent in Ni types, just that the connection in terms of understanding ideas is clear. (And, like the Babel Fish, such mutual understanding doesn't really guarantee that the Ni types get along.)
    This makes sense. Ni sounds like @Mole, lol.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
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    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  7. #477
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Everyone gets those "a ha!" insights. That isn't Ni or Ne. It's just human.

    The way to differentiate the perceiving functions is to understand what they're typically looking at. Se is looking at concrete reality in the moment, aware of it to a point that would amaze non-Se types if it could be fully conveyed. Si types are looking at their internal understanding of concrete reality, to the point that they experience that internal concrete reality far more strongly than the external version. Ne types look at the patterns in the external world; not at things so much as how the things are organized, what they connect to. Ni instead looks at internal patterns that (to Ni) describe all that is important about external reality.

    In practice, Ni does one thing very well that the other perceiving functions don't do: it synthesizes ideas. It is in fact the results of this synthesis that the Ni type remembers as "the truth". The reason that Ni ends up seeming so much more odd than the other functions is that these synthesized ideas are not easily articulated (i.e., conveyed in words); rather, pieces of these ideas can be conveyed as they manifest in the real world. For instance, an Ni physicist doesn't typically memorize formulas, but rather remembers how things fit together in a non-verbal sort of way, and uses formulas to convey those "how things fit together" ideas in specific instances.

    The part that Coriolis is talking about above is the act of synthesis: you look at something, it doesn't make sense, but you keep on looking, juggling what you seen in your head, and suddenly something clicks and it all makes sense. And the resulting "makes sense" isn't some sort of factoid understanding, but a kind of understanding that necessarily implies a whole bunch of other truths that are not immediately visible. E.g., suddenly understanding the concept of gravity as not only a force that makes things fall to the ground, but also the force that makes the planets go around the sun, makes a pendulum operate, makes rivers flow, and even the force that makes helium-filled balloons fall up, and so on. Another way to look at it is that while all types get "a ha!" events, Ni types seem to be very skilled at making them happen, by habitually synthesizing ideas.

    Interestingly, we Ni types can detect other Ni types via this synthetic understanding: we only need to explain a couple of essential parts of an idea, and the other Ni types instantly understand all the implications. Non-Ni types don't respond that way. Even Ne types who understand the basic idea don't respond that way, but instead branch out on tangents an Ni type wouldn't follow. This isn't to say that there is something inherently smarter or more intelligent in Ni types, just that the connection in terms of understanding ideas is clear. (And, like the Babel Fish, such mutual understanding doesn't really guarantee that the Ni types get along.)
    ok thank you, I was wondering though for me I'll be like this is a bad idea or blah blah is wrong and I'll know they're wrong but I don't know why they're wrong and I end up being right about them being wrong. but I don't argue or say anything because they won't listen unless i have concrete proof but I do think I'm using Ne because it's like I'll remember something but only remember 1% about it or not enough to prove that what I know is true. Oh I'm not making sense forget it.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #478
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    This makes sense. Ni sounds like @Mole, lol.
    Mole is Ni.

    Who knew?

  9. #479
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Mole is Ni.

    Who knew?
    Darn. I was hoping that Mole was Chicken.

    Then we'd have Chicken Mole, which is quite yummy.



    Ni, however, is about 58.69 gm/Mole, and not nearly as yummy, as it tastes kind of metallic.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
    Likes Ene liked this post

  10. #480
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Darn. I was hoping that Mole was Chicken.

    Then we'd have Chicken Mole, which is quite yummy.



    Ni, however, is about 58.69 gm/Mole, and not nearly as yummy, as it tastes kind of metallic.
    Ni humor!
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

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