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  1. #231
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Because ENFP is introverted extrovert and ISFP is extroverted introvert.

    INFP is just introverted, usually, and I'm more borderline. Also, I appear to be using either Se or Te more than an INFP would.
    Got it.
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  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post


    That's how I think. I refuse to think there's absolute truth in one theory, meshing things together and trying to look at what is common inside of them is what works for me. I lean more toward function theory, but I never claimed to be an expert.
    There is no absolute truth in a single theory. The more theories you use, the more likely you will be to solve the riddle of your entire personality. However, using multiple typological systems to solve the riddle of a single type, as you seem to be doing, isn't going to produce correct results. For instance, if you attempt to use the fact that you're enneagram 4 to determine your MBTI type, you're going to deduct the likelihood of some possibilities, but the possibilities of INFP, ENFP, ENFJ, INFJ, and several others would still exist. Right? The same rule applies to temperaments (which are old as dirt, but still useful), socionics, MBTI, and pure Jungian typology.



    You know what? I think other people's observations matter. That's where you and I differ, and I really don't get your attitude. That's what's not helpful - it's not your information, but the smug "I'm with Invisible Jim in my self-congratulating" tone with which it's delivered ..."OH ITS SAD"...you sound like fucking Solitary Walker looking down on all the folk typology peasants.
    I'm just trying to deliver what I understand to you. I've seen you struggling with this for some time. Not only are you searching for your type(s), but you're also trying to behaviorally see of the suit fits. Acting like a type isn't going to turn you into that type, especially if that type is cognitive. I've tried it myself.

    Anyway, addressing my tone or my attitude isn't going to magically make what I say untrue.

    Go jerk off or something, pop a prozac, go away.
    Uncalled for.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    There is no absolute truth in a single theory. The more theories you use, the more likely you will be to solve the riddle of your entire personality. However, using multiple typological systems to solve the riddle of a single type, as you seem to be doing, isn't going to produce correct results. For instance, if you attempt to use the fact that you're enneagram 4 to determine your MBTI type, you're going to deduct the likelihood of some possibilities, but the possibilities of INFP, ENFP, ENFJ, INFJ, and several others would still exist. Right? The same rule applies to temperaments (which are old as dirt, but still useful), socionics, MBTI, and pure Jungian typology.


    I'm just trying to deliver what I understand to you. I've seen you struggling with this for some time. Not only are you searching for your type(s), but you're also trying to behaviorally see of the suit fits. Acting like a type isn't going to turn you into that type, especially if that type is cognitive. I've tried it myself.

    Anyway, addressing my tone or my attitude isn't going to magically make what I say untrue.



    Uncalled for.
    I'm an ennegram 6, not 4, but I see what you're getting at. You're saying I'm not going to be the same type, necessarily, if I utilize different theories.

    Thing is, I am trying to understand type theory by applying it to myself, because only then can I begin to apply it other people. I've noticed behavioral trends with types, whether you like that idea or not. I'd advise you to remember that the "truth" of what you're saying is relative and applies more to your opinion of what is true than to objective reality. Apparently pure cognitive functioning is your preferred method if you refrain from taking type-related behavior into account, that's what I would surmise.

    I like getting other people's viewpoints - it's important to me and I learn from it. I just don't understand why you felt a need to attack that, and warp it into a faulty perception of me trying to get other people to tell me my type without my own reasoning. That's absurd, and I really don't know where you get that, unless you carry a distinct hostility toward considering other people's opinions in typing one's self.

    I'm not trying to act like a particular type, I'm just being myself, but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Again, you seem to be implying that you do not rely on temperament theory at all, nor on communication styles, and rather prefer cognitive functioning, and are annoyed that I'm trying to figure out my own truth by mixing them together.

    What interests me - even by cognitive theory - is that similar actions can be explained by different combinations of functions, for example Fi/Se/Ni could do something similar to Ne/Fi/Te if explained differently.

    I'd like to draw pictures of cognitive functions and maybe then I'd be able to truly comprehend it on a more abstract level.

    I'm not sure why my particular way of learning about or discussing the different type theories is really any of your concern, or why you appear to be judging it or be so frustrated about it.

    If I'm going to assign a label myself or to other people, I want to be as thoroughly researched as possible and YES other people's theories and observations are part of that process for me.

    I don't think I've fully decided which theory rings more true to me, though I've fairly ruled out Socionics for the most part.

  4. #234
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ have you ever started a "What type is marmy" thread (I know it's been discussed here and there; just can't recall a specific thread off the top o' my head) ... even if so, perhaps a good time to revisit the question!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #235

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    marmelade sunrise, have you considered the shadow functions of the ISFP? They're the same as an ESFJ and will manifest when the individual is under stress. When you lash out at people, it strongly reminds me of the two ESFJs I know in real life.

  6. #236
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    It's how I recognize Ni-ers IRL ... a certain look in the eyes, distant and not quite present. The flash that occurs when the thoughts are interrupted, like a hailing back to reality.

    Do you set aside time especially so you can ponder / float without any intrusions? Is it easy to access your Ni space even when in the middle of a group of people?
    Even my SO catches me with this look, sometimes at the dinner table, but knows just to let me be until I'm ready for interruption.

    I do set aside time for Ni based ruminations, but not nearly as much as I would like. It is amazing how easily I can fill large quantities of time with these mental explorations. Yes, ensuring the absence of intrusions is critical. I can access this "Ni space" when in a group, but only when I can get away with not directly participating or interacting, as in a large meeting or lecture. If there is any need for situation awareness, it is not worth trying. Better to stay in Te/Se space and be able to react to whatever transpires.

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    marmelade sunrise, have you considered the shadow functions of the ISFP? They're the same as an ESFJ and will manifest when the individual is under stress. When you lash out at people, it strongly reminds me of the two ESFJs I know in real life.
    So you're saying I'm ISFP with ESFJ shadow when I'm pissed off? Fe/Si/Ne/Ti coming from Fi/Se/Ni/Te ...yeah okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ have you ever started a "What type is marmy" thread (I know it's been discussed here and there; just can't recall a specific thread off the top o' my head) ... even if so, perhaps a good time to revisit the question!
    Yeah I'll go bump my "who thinks I'm a sensor thread" and stop my self-absorbed derailing.

  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Thing is, I am trying to understand type theory by applying it to myself, because only then can I begin to apply it other people.
    Not exactly, but it certainly helps.
    I've noticed behavioral trends with types, whether you like that idea or not.
    I don't doubt that. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with stacking your observations if they are untrue or don't fit together.
    I'd advise you to remember that the "truth" of what you're saying is relative and applies more to your opinion of what is true than to objective reality. Apparently pure cognitive functioning is your preferred method if you refrain from taking type-related behavior into account, that's what I would surmise.
    Firstly,the point of relativism his repeated, repeated, repeated, like Gregorian chants from the dark ages here on the forum. Secondly, that's irrelevant. Neither "calling me out" on having an opinion, nor saying that you don't appreciate my tone falsifies my claims.

    I like getting other people's viewpoints - it's important to me and I learn from it. I just don't understand why you felt a need to attack that, and warp it into a faulty perception of me trying to get other people to tell me my type without my own reasoning. That's absurd, and I really don't know where you get that, unless you carry a distinct hostility toward considering other people's opinions in typing one's self.
    I think it's unethical for anyone to tell another person what their type is. So, you say my opinion it's "faulty" and "absurd". Time and time again, when changing your type, you use the reasoning "Well, Edgar said I was type X" or "Sim said I was type Y".

    I'm not trying to act like a particular type, I'm just being myself, but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Again, you seem to be implying that you do not rely on temperament theory at all, nor on communication styles, and rather prefer cognitive functioning, and are annoyed that I'm trying to figure out my own truth by mixing them together.
    Even sim could see that you were trying to make some of your own synthetic Ni after typing yourself as an INFJ. Even I can see that after typing yourself as an SFP, you pay close attention to cataloging detail.

    If I were to use anything, it would be ALL things. Just independently.

    If you "mix" them all together into one convoluted approach, you're never going to be able to form a direct line of reasoning or reach a conclusion about their independent outcomes. It's going to be a garbled mess, hence your indecision on your own type.


    I'm not sure why my particular way of learning about or discussing the different type theories is really any of your concern, or why you appear to be judging it or be so frustrated about it.
    ... Ok?

  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I think it's unethical for anyone to tell another person what their type is. So, you say my opinion it's "faulty" and "absurd". Time and time again, when changing your type, you use the reasoning "Well, Edgar said I was type X" or "Sim said I was type Y".
    so that's your ethic...but it's not mine. that's what I figured, and why I pointed out relativism. next.


    Even sim could see that you were trying to make some of your own synthetic Ni after typing yourself as an INFJ. Even I can see that after typing yourself as an SFP, you pay close attention to cataloging detail.
    No. This isn't true. This is totally your perception. "Manufacturing synthetic Ni"? WTF? I wouldn't even know how to do that.

    I also kept an entire journal for a couple of years that was nothing but rich sensory detail. It still exists on livejournal, but thanks for letting me know that if I change my type, people imagine that they see different things, or perceive me a different way...it's long been my suspicion.



    If you "mix" them all together into one convoluted approach, you're never going to be able to form a direct line of reasoning or reach a conclusion about their independent outcomes. It's going to be a garbled mess, hence your indecision on your own type.
    okey-dokey, so you want me to just pick one? well, I'm sorry it gets on your nerves that I won't just pick one. I guess you can choose to ignore me, it's not like I'm PM-ing you or writing this on your wall...and if I were to do so, you could ask me to stop.

  10. #240
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    Wow, your reading comprehension is terrible.

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