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Thread: Ni - What the hell is it?

  1. #221
    ¤ Array Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    My style of waiting is to "let the river do all the work." I simply sort out what is in the river. My net is to simply frame the question and let it settle in my mind.
    Exactly!

    But see, that's part of the reason why I think Ni gets this kinda mystical bent.

    I know, for me at least, that's part of the reason why I find it mysterious.

    After having experienced enough times in my life that, if I just wait, have patience, and let the universe do its thing (i.e., let time flow): the right answer will come.

    This, at least in my case, ends up putting me in a position of sort of having to trust in the universe, it makes me sort of subservient to it, because I do not control the flow of that river.

    This then starts defining my relationship to the universe, which, ultimately, I call "God".

    I am subservient to it. And, when I am, it gives me my bounty.

    I mean, if that doesn't sound like some religious or spiritual shit, caused more or less directly by my relationship to the universe due to my dominant function, I don't know what does...

    I believe Islam means "submission to God", no? In my books, that means "submission to the universe"... both within me, and outside me.
    The Justice Fighter

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    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
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    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

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  2. #222
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Just a week or two ago, in describing to my girlfriend why I and other Ni doms sometimes have a somewhat "blank" look on our face, I said it was because my thoughts on the matter are still forming.
    It's how I recognize Ni-ers IRL ... a certain look in the eyes, distant and not quite present. The flash that occurs when the thoughts are interrupted, like a hailing back to reality.

    Do you set aside time especially so you can ponder / float without any intrusions? Is it easy to access your Ni space even when in the middle of a group of people?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    It's how I recognize Ni-ers IRL ... a certain look in the eyes, distant and not quite present. The flash that occurs when the thoughts are interrupted, like a hailing back to reality.
    Actually, I just remembered!

    The reason we were having the discussion is because we were talking about how I and other Ni-ers tend to avoid eye contact.

    And I said that I do it because otherwise I'm just gunna give you a blank expression, because my mind hasn't settled on anything yet.

    Once my mind has congealed into some form, then I will look you right in the eye, cuz I know what it is that I am thinking.

    I think a lifetime of seeing peoples' reactions to our "blank" expression may tend to lead (some) Ni-doms to sort of avoid eye contact until our faces aren't blank anymore.

    Not only is it annoying to have people look at this "blank" expression and be kinda like , but it messes with the formation of my (our?) thoughts in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Do you set aside time especially so you can ponder / float without any intrusions?
    I would say that it's extremely important for me to do so sometimes.

    In fact, I would say that I use yoga to go into an NiFi loop kinda state.

    As much as some people may think I'm an ENTJ, I need downtime where I can just go and close my eyes, or sit somewhere and "zone out", and let existence wash over me.

    Eventually, time is like water; it flushes out everything that needn't be there, and reveals that which does remain in a clearer light...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Is it easy to access your Ni space even when in the middle of a group of people?
    Oh, I most certainly can access it when in the middle of a group of people.

    But that doesn't mean it's good for my social life.

    The Justice Fighter

    XXXX - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Is it easy to access your Ni space even when in the middle of a group of people?
    Not in the middle, anywhere but the middle. We end up having to continually pull ourself back into reality and it is a constant effort not to phase out trying to keep up with what is going on. If its a large group one would prefer to pass through without contact and unnoticed; this has the same effect as being alone and is preferred. This is why only communicating with 1 or 2 people is ideal at any time, we can either stay with Ni or without because we aren't being 'overwhelmed' into Ni by just a few persons.

  5. #225
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Do you set aside time especially so you can ponder / float without any intrusions? Is it easy to access your Ni space even when in the middle of a group of people?
    For my entire adult life I have 'scheduled' days of nothingness - or at least preferred having those days interspersed with busier/active ones. It hasn't been much of an issue lately because I am working from home so have more than plenty of time to myself, but when I have held full-time office jobs, over the weekends the 'day of nothing' could become especially critical/necessary.

    I am able to access Ni with groups of people, however the issue can become articulating my thoughts in real time, in the manner in which conversations tend to work in a group - i.e. my thoughts/ pacing of speaking typically doesn't work well in a fast-paced discussion. So I tend not to do well in social groups as a general rule.. I rarely say anything. Another thing - it becomes virtually impossible for me to really access it when I have an emotional investment / it's related to a particular person or relationship. But impersonal things - like anything work-related, a business meeting or discussion, etc - not an issue at all.
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  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    P means slower to be content with conclusions reached, not slower per se. The perceiver part of the P priority holds that just around the corner there will be another piece of really interesting information so it's better to hold off finally choosing until we've seen that piece too.
    Oh there's nothing slow about how I walk or how I type (over 80 wpm) and I can learn quite quickly when I'm shown how to do something new.

    But processing information pertaining to human beings, whether more abstract or in terms of personal relationships, is something that I have to think about for a minute, I have to roll it around it in my head and make my own sense out of it, translate it to my own way of thinking, and check and see if I agree or what else I think or feel about it.



    If you generally want more info on the connection between things, then it suggests N. If you want more of the speed and colour and shape of things, then (assuming we're still talking P here) suggests S.
    I usually want more info on the connection between things, but I also want more of the color and shape of things.



    Says little about N. Suggests you take as a priority the existence of feelings.
    yeah, I figured, but just checking



    So... not an Ni user then?




    I crack me up.





    There are lots of reasons for being unwilling or unable to commit to a type assertion. Being P (and therefore not wanting to decide too soon) is one. Being F (and therefore placing emphasis on individuals as they present themselves rather than emphasis on impersonal mechanism behind people) is another. Being E is actually another reason for avoiding typological assertions too, on the one hand to assert your individuality (your i side) and on the other to actually reflect the majority opinion, which is that typology is bunk.
    Well I think it probably does have to do with being a P (hesitant to make a quick decision without all the info, yes) and F (wanting to look at people holistically) and maybe even to assert my individuality...but I don't have any wish to reflect the majority opinion that typology is bunk, that was never my intention. Rather I want to take all the information, consider all sides, and talk to different people and get their perspectives. I always seem to want to check my reality up against other people if I can't up against "the real world."





    This is my vision. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My vision is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My vision, without me, is useless. Without my vision, I am useless. I must make my vision true. I must see further than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must see him before he sees me. I won't, however, for I have inferior Se.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Marm thinks I'm cool!
    of course!

    This more Ni than Ne. Ne will take lots of disparate events/objects/observations and see "patterns" in them. Often there is a goal of uniting all of these observations into a single pattern, a single theory, that describes all of them. Ni is more about wanting to understand a particular thing in many different ways, comparing perspectives.
    I see

    Se


    More Se




    I'd disagree. This continuous pretension that having a curious mind (thus implying an intelligent mind) implies N, and that it's converse implies S is nonsense.

    The S vs N dilemma is rather clear in you, Marm, because on one level, you are very interested in the abstract, but at the same time you'd like to cut through the bullshit and have a concrete explanation. This really feels like Se vs Ni, to me.

    As you continue to relate, here:


    Exactly. Translating abstract concepts into concrete concepts is difficult in the extreme. The whole concept of infinity is a good example. In abstract terms, infinity is very simple: it's an unbounded set. It's just a way of saying "goes on forever." No more, no less. Translating it into Se terms is where it breaks down, because then infinity starts meaning nonsensical things, like "infinity is the highest number" or "parallel lines intersect" or "really big, no, I mean really really big".

    I'm not trying to make fun, here, but rather trying to give specific examples of turning a basic abstract concept into a concrete concept. The abstract concept needs to stay in the abstract space, the concrete concept needs to stay in the concrete space. So if we take the meaning of "infinity" w/r to Ni, and translate it into Se, it doesn't become "really really big", but rather it becomes, "OK, I don't need to worry about reaching the end of this any time soon," or "Hmm, I just did some bad math, because it says I should have infinite money, now." Similarly, the Se concept of "this seems to go on forever" translates into the Ni-abstraction of "Hmm, this may very well be infinite, unbounded."
    I recall once Whatever also gave this explanation: her Ne and Se are both high, and she decided that she preferred ESTP over ENTP, even though she was capable of using both, and wondered if I was the same...but between NFP and SFP instead of STP and NTP.

    I do relate to some of these descriptions of Ni, though. Really, I do, so I find this interesting and enlightening.

    As for Ne vs Ni, let me relate a long discussion I had last night IRL with an ENFP of our mutual acquaintance. She was busily digesting the contents of several books, including "A Course In Miracles," "The Four Agreements" and the "Tao Te Ching." Curious, I pointed out a section of the Tao and asked what she thought. I expected she'd take 15-30 minutes going over it and tell me what thoughts the text invoked.

    Nope.

    She read it in about 60 seconds and said, "Benevolent detachment."

    I just looked at her funny. "Um, sort of, but there's a lot more to it, than that."

    "It's all just benevolent detachment. You see it here, and in the Four Agreements and in Buddhism and several other religions. You just split off yourself from the real world, and then you see the truth."

    "Um, no. It really isn't just that," I replied. "There are so many ideas here, in this section of the Tao. For example, the 'Practice not-doing, and everything will fall into place.' What does that mean to you?"

    "Benevolent detachment."

    As Ne, she is pulling ideas in from all over, and synthesizing them into a single concrete understanding, trying to find the unifying truth in all of them.

    As Ni, I chose that particular line about "Practice not-doing," because that is exactly what I do when I think. When I don't try to think, my thinking falls into place. If I try to think hard, it just doesn't. By "not-thinking," I get my best thinking done. And this attitude works in other aspects of one's life.

    E.g., a dancer dances (Se), but doesn't actually "think" about dancing, doesn't actually "try" to dance, but she just dances, seemingly effortlessly; the dancer is the dance. If she were trying to dance, or thinking hard about dancing, you'd see the flaws. It would look wrong. Instead, she reaches a level of understanding/skill that she is "not-dancing", and thus dances very well. (I point out this Se example to show how it is quite compatible with the Ni perspective.)

    Yet Ne glosses all of this over, looking for its version of the "underlying pattern" and gets "benevolent detachment."

    I hope this helps you with your self-insights, Marm, and gives the rest of your a better understanding of what Ni "really is."
    Yes, it does help a lot. Greatly. Thank you.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    I would suggest you use far more Si than most ENFPs. It makes you more introverted than most. You might also find you almost balance Ne with Si-thus your innate interest in pursuing the abstract possibilities simply for the sake of landscape extension-Ne, is countered by a cognitive impetus to preserve what you understand to be true-Si. Mid-strong judging functions, especially the Te, might come across as wanting to reach a decision quickly, yet later be open to changes in that decision openly due to new Ne content...but you also stick very strongly to what you believe to be true in spite of others lack of approval-a strong Fi.

    Just my 2c.
    Yeah makes sense...and it's something I've even said myself "I have an awful lot of Si for an ENFP!!!!"

    BUT THIS, THIS QUOTE FROM Z...

    Just a week or two ago, in describing to my girlfriend why I and other Ni doms sometimes have a somewhat "blank" look on our face, I said it was because my thoughts on the matter are still forming.

    The stuff inside my head has still not congealed into any solid substance, it hasn't yet reached that crystallized state, the lightning has not yet struck. But then, all of a sudden, *boom* it's there. And I've got something in mind.
    This is basically kind of what I was trying to explain to Kalach when I was calling myself "slow"...this process right here.

    And I have those "boom" moments, too. I have had two of them lately, on big questions I've been asking myself for months and there seemed no definitive answer in sight. They just come almost out of nowhere...I just don't know what to do for months, then suddenly I do??!

    Oh...and a P.S. to PeaceBaby...I appreciate what you're saying, I really do...and I'm not offended at all lol.

    I just know I'm no ExxJ, I'm so much more introverted than that IRL, and I'm pretty sure I don't have Fe. If I do have Fe, I'm not an Fe dom. Thanks, though. Maybe you're seeing Ni and Se like Uumlau with a strong F function.

  9. #229
    ¤ Array Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    BUT THIS, THIS QUOTE FROM Z...

    This is basically kind of what I was trying to explain to Kalach when I was calling myself "slow"...this process right here.

    And I have those "boom" moments, too. I have had two of them lately, on big questions I've been asking myself for months and there seemed no definitive answer in sight. They just come almost out of nowhere...I just don't know what to do for months, then suddenly I do??!
    Tertiary Ni, perhaps?

    Btw, I don't quite understand why, if ENFP and ISFP are both possibilities you're considering, why INFP wouldn't be one as well...

    Just my $.02...


    Ni - What the hell is it?
    Last edited by highlander; 10-04-2015 at 07:52 PM.
    The Justice Fighter

    XXXX - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Tertiary Ni, perhaps?

    Btw, I don't quite understand why, if ENFP and ISFP are both possibilities you're considering, why INFP wouldn't be one as well...

    Just my $.02...
    Because ENFP is introverted extrovert and ISFP is extroverted introvert.

    INFP is just introverted, usually, and I'm more borderline. Also, I appear to be using either Se or Te more than an INFP would.

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