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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post

    I think Se is less popular. Almost everyone who I have met who has it in abundance tries to pretend they are a different type. Usually ENFP or ENTP.
    Err...I thought Si was the least popular, at least on this forum. Poor Si is like a dog that is kicked. I appreciate Si though because people who have it strongly take care of all of those details I either miss or don't want to deal with.

    I don't know if Se users "pretend" to be ENxP or if they are simply mixing up Se with Ne, particularly if they are in touch with their Ni. Se/Ni together could very well make a person think they had Ne, especially if they're someone who thinks a lot and has bought into the stereotype that Ss don't like theory at all. I know this has been a really big point for me personally.

    As an aside, my Se wants to beat you up.

  2. #172
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    lol. Gotta love isolated quotes. It's just like pulling one-liners from the Bible.


    I thought it was rather appropriate...

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Err...I thought Si was the least popular, at least on this forum. Poor Si is like a dog that is kicked.
    Personally, I love both Se and Si.

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  3. #173
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Reading this made me re-read my post, as if I were an outsider, and I realized that in essence my post didn't explain a thing (as far as play-by-play process), even though as I was typing it, from my perspective it totally describes how I am and what I do and what Ni is.

    And I remember back then having a bit of an a-ha, thinking, oh man, what I write, seems so self-evident to me, that I naturally don't feel the need to explain all of the background or the why's as to why I think something, because it seems so 'obvious' to me. Perhaps that's another indicator of dom-Ni... I/we think what we say is utterly obvious and so it doesn't occur to us to expand on certain things. And I realize that probably can't not sound arrogant, but, meh. In the process of trying to nab that underlying theme/truth/probability/perspective/whatever, getting rid of all the extraneous matter, we/I also get rid of the 'details'/process that led me to it in the first place. I guess.
    This I think is utter truth.

    It is why people can think of Ni doms as arbitrary. We don't explain ourselves as well as we might. Part of the problem again is that the process of eliminating the extraneous matter is an unconscious process. It's hard to explain something that you don't even fully understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I'm not an Ni dom, so I don't want to rely on my perception of Ni alone; I want to hear, from Ni doms, if you could connect the dots, could you retell an Ni insight?

    You say you have "visions" - ergo you must SEE something, literally or metaphorically or predictively. I want to know what that is, how that process feels, what types of insights you have gained, how it manifests in your daily life ...

    Give it!
    Let me think about it and I'll come up with a few examples. They are amorphous in a sense which is why there might be a little resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Err...I thought Si was the least popular, at least on this forum. Poor Si is like a dog that is kicked. I appreciate Si though because people who have it strongly take care of all of those details I either miss or don't want to deal with.
    Perhaps not in the forum, but IRL, I think Si is very much accepted.

    One of the more interesting things I've observed lately is that I'm very good at recognizing Si - much better than Ni. I think it is because it is so common. It's everywhere. Thank goodness...

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  4. #174
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    1) Ni is responsible for the estimation of the passage of time, the understanding of a course of processes in time, and forecasting;
    2) Ni understand how things change and evolve over time and throughout history;
    3) Ni is acutely aware of events that are occurring outside of the immediate perception of the moment, and sees events as part of a continuous flow;
    4) Ni perceives the inevitability of future events and notices ties to the past.

    No, this is not my definition. I brought this forth from the Intertardz.

  5. #175
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    No matter how many threads I read or how much info I accumulate, I am still puzzled by the differences between Ni and Ne.

    I hope I get it one day.

    Of course, I'm Ne. I know that. But what IS Ni??? Every time I read something, I say, "Well that's what *I* do...so what do you Ni-folks do???"
    Maybe you're not actually Ne then?
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  6. #176
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    4) Ni perceives the inevitability of future events and notices ties to the past..
    I've seen those definitions before, but this just struck me as a decent way to illustrate how Ni often has a more focused vision than Ne. What is inevitable (Ni) for the future verses what is possible (Ne). Of course, Ni people can be wrong, just as Ne can be wrong about what is possible or miss a possibility altogether, but it's a difference in the way things are being perceived.

    I still wonder, as peacebaby does, what is actually going through your minds?
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #177
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    On examples, I think it is extremely difficult to observe Ni in action. You might be able to observe its aftereffects - like Uumlau said - this change in perspective, perhaps someone stating a different view reflecting a broader context. Another way to recognize the aftereffects might be when someone articulates a future vision or predicts what going to happen in the future. These are some personal examples that might involve Ni:

    Example 1 - I'm in a meeting at work. The conversation is running down a rabbit hole of detail. In addition to getting bored, I'm getting frustrated. People are missing the point. They're missing what's important in this particular situation. They're all together swimming in this rabbit hole. At an opportune time, I redirect the conversation towards the larger problem at hand or a different perspective. I'll generally do this by asking context changing questions. I might say something like "perhaps we should take a step back". I might directly assert that what we're talking about will address part of the problem but not other important aspects. This really isn't Ni per se, but it is evidence of the after effects. When did the thought or result of Ni occur to me? In the meeting? In the shower? I don't know - but somewhere I began to come to conclusions on what the important points were.

    Example 2 - I briefly see a news report of this guy who is flying around the world in his balloon. It's never been done successfully but tried many times. This thought pops in my head - he is going to make it. I'm sure of it. That's the closest one to voodoo I can think of, though it was perfectly useless information from a practical perspective. This is having a picture as to how the future will unfold.

    Example 3 - I decide to make a career change into a completely unproven area. I have the strong feeling that it's going to be important in the future. People tell me I'm crazy - that I'm losing valuable technical skills. They say it's a bad idea. It's hard going for the first five - seven years. My prediction was right but my timing was a bit early. Ultimately, it turns out to be quite lucrative. The original idea was, I believe, from using Ni. This is having a sense as to how the future will unfold and taking advantage of that insight.

    Example 4 - I'm doing a consulting project. I conduct a bunch of interviews over a three day period and have all of this information - disconnected details. I'm able to very quickly synthesize all of that information, my previous experience, my sense as to what's coming in the future, and develop a set of key insights and recommendations to help the client to get to a better place in the future. What are the most important issues? That's relying heavily on Ni and to a lesser extent Te. Then, I use Te more extensively to develop a plan of action - establishing milestones, outcomes, and a schedule of activities and time and cost estimates to achieve those milestones and outcomes. People do these kinds of things all the time without Ni. The part that may be different is the speed at which I'm able to arrive at the insights and conclusions. Other types often seem to need more time to get to an answer or apply a more methodical process.

    Example 5 - This person who has worked for me for years is up for a promotion. It's not certain by any means. Most people don't make it. The economy sucks - making it even more unlikely because not only are people not getting promoted but they are losing their jobs. As part of the process, you have to give a presentation. She practices on me (I'm the audience). The sudden realization comes to me as she is conducting the presentation that she is going to make of it. I'm sure of it. That's Ni.
    Last edited by highlander; 10-18-2010 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Adding example

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  8. #178
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    I am just going to ramble incoherently a bit now, I have some rich, if vague nostalgic memories from childhood and I can even remember alot of my dreams from then, but the interesting thing is that I can bend these memories with my imagination, imagine other alternate reality memories and these have an equal footing with the actual memories I experience. So I can look back and "feel" nostalgic for a past I never firsthand experienced. Is this some kind of Si Ne thing where (Si) is having these rich memories to go by and then I use my imagination(Ne) to create other possibilities/alternative realties for my past?

    For the notion I get from Ni, it seems to want to look beyond the surface to what is really going on behind the scences, like reality is not exactly what it appears to be just going by your intial impression/5 senses, where as Se just accepts the present experience for what it is, a rose is a rose, a crackhead banging on your door at four in the morning is a crackhead banging on your door at 4 in the morning*. I think in this way it is kind of similar to Ti as Ti wants to look at the structural blueprint(and it helps if it can be simple and universal too) behind the surface phenomena and this "blueprint" probably won't be clearly obvious to the uninformed.

    For instance Einstien's quest to find a simple, elegant theory of everything that can explain the behaviour of the smallest particle to the motions of the largest galaxies, "simple, beautiful concise equation". I think where Ti and Ni might differ is that Ti is working closely with one(or a few) predefined meanings/principles/whatever and branching off from there and Ni just constantly switches its meanings and having a clearly defined meaning and sticking to that might hinder Ni from shifting the user's perspective to other meanings. Ne could branch off with numerous possibilities and implications from the concise Ti starting point/idea, could the Ti+Ne combo mimic Ni in certain situations? Sometimes I have those "aha" moments too, especially if I'm walking somewhere(I have came up with entire storylines and plots unexpectly/random while walking to the store), could Ne have aha moments like Ni?

    *Oh, this has never happened to me if you are getting that idea, I ain't in no ghettoooooo
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  9. #179
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I still wonder, as peacebaby does, what is actually going through your minds?
    Maybe I'm an exception. For me, there is this jumble of impressions, concepts, information, ideas. thoughts, perspectives, etc. I sometimes have a very hard time making sense of it all. I can't articulate it into words easily. Writing things down helps to crystallize the thinking a lot.

    Is Fi like that?

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  10. #180
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Maybe I'm an exception. For me, there is this jumble of impressions, concepts, information, ideas. thoughts, perspectives, etc. I sometimes have a very hard time making sense of it all. I can't articulate it into words easily. Writing things down helps to crystallize the thinking a lot.
    Before I've reached 'resolution'/clarity, I must say I think it's similar for me. Just stuff floating around up there. Quite a lot, and rapidly sometimes. Much of it would probably be nebulous impressions - half-formed notions, maybe. The beginnings of something, but just the blip/suggestion of an idea. I can't tell you how much of my existence has been spent doing absolutely nothing -- just sitting in this zoned-out state of what I'll call musing, contemplating, one impression or another popping through my head, sometimes simultaneously, and if I'm really anxious about a specific thing, in that moment it feels like a mess of craziness up there, it's like I 'wait' for things to settle of their own accord or something... letting things sift around and flow around. That's perhaps the most elemental level.

    Then when it becomes more conscious/active, that's where active shifting and looking through different lens and viewpoints and perspectives starts kicking in - being more aware of trying to nab what's coalescing in my mind. Then, on top of that, when I'm actively trying to crack something that I'll have more of a dialogue running in my head, where I'm actually trying to pinpoint specific things and analyze them. Dissect things, etc. But without the analyzation aspect it's kinda what highlander describes, and it's not specific full-formed thoughts or sentences, rather it would be analagous to phrases or complete Impressions - or an instant-flash total full-picture view of something, without the need to have all of the sentences there in my head, the sentences are implied and 'known' based on my already-formed Clarities of other things I've already worked through and that tie into this current thing (because it's rare you're ever starting from scratch, you can grab pieces of previous constructs to incorporate into whatever you're currently musing over)..

    And, writing is one of the few mediums that actually works for getting all of the stuff out. Except as I already mentioned, apparently even when I think I'm outlining every little detail, it seems I'm not.
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