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Thread: Ni - What the hell is it?

  1. #121
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    Hilarious!

    I won't disagree with any of your post. It is intensely interesting how cognitive processes can manifest, depending on order and strength.

    Thanks for an interesting discussion.

  2. #122
    Striving for balance Array Little Linguist's Avatar
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    No matter how many threads I read or how much info I accumulate, I am still puzzled by the differences between Ni and Ne.

    I hope I get it one day.

    Of course, I'm Ne. I know that. But what IS Ni??? Every time I read something, I say, "Well that's what *I* do...so what do you Ni-folks do???"

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Ladies and Gentlebeans,

    I find your lack of faith uninspiring. It seems you're sufficiently unfamiliar with "The Long View" that you've come to engineer ways to be assured other people be unfamiliar with it too. "Ni is just...", pfft. Ni is just Yo Momma, the long view you don't have.

    If you would like to define Ni, consider not equating it with inadequate versions of your own functions. Or we can do your perception functions next.


    Se: snacks.
    Si: snacks from last week.
    Ne: filling the crossword puzzle with more blanks.
    I've heard that the best way to define Ni is by not defining it at all. That's it's very spirit.
    Likes D'Ascoyne liked this post

  4. #124
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I've heard that the best way to define Ni is by not defining it at all. That's it's very spirit.
    Closer to its spirit would be a defining it with a Zen kōan, e.g., "Two hands clap and there is a sound. What is the sound of one hand?" Figuring out the real meaning of a koan is exactly the kind of task Ni is good at. Further, as noted in the Wiki link I just gave, "The master is not looking for a specific answer but for evidence that the disciple has grasped the state of mind expressed by the kōan itself." Ni is that ongoing attitude of looking at things in different ways, so that one can find the "right way" of looking at it.

    A kōan is not meaningless or unanswerable. Rather, it doesn't make sense until you change your subjective context (attitude, perspective) into one that lets the kōan make sense. In the Ni case, the kōan could be "What is Ni?" and the act of trying to figure out what Ni is, is Ni. Ni is "the sound of one hand."

  5. #125
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    There's an interesting corollary in this thread between Ni / Ne and Fi / Fe. Ne here is the function that can tend to presume "but I know about intuition; I do that" and Ni the one to say, "No, you just don't get it."

    So since I feel like Fe doesn't get Fi, I accept that Ne doesn't really get Ni either. But it's a fascinating exploration nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Ni is about shifting perspectives. It solves problems by focusing on seemingly simple ways in which they could be different, which outwardly manifests as a strange "knowing" or clarity of how things should be. It is different in outward appearance from Ne in that Ni users are very self-assured about their own view of how things should be. Ne is always looking for options about how things should be different, and always considering different perspectives and changing its mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Ni doesn't really link information together -- that's more akin to the Ne process of pattern-finding. What Ni itself does is analyze information by playing with its own perspective of it; as opposed to Ne, which links information to other seemingly unrelated environmental factors, weaving a new emerging pattern out of reality.
    I like all that; nice Aleksei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Fi consciously decides if something is good or bad.
    Ni unconsciously links pieces of information together.
    Why is Fi conscious and Ni unconscious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Ne: There are always other perspectives and new meanings to discover
    Ni: There is always a future to realize and a significance to be revealed. "Revealed" basically means "uncovered". So it's a matter of UNcovered versus DIScovered.
    Yes, that's very nice too.

    I have always thought of Ni as the microscope, and Ne as the telescope.

    Ni says, if I look at this close enough, and long enough, from all the angles, the truth will be revealed to me, like a flower that blossoms. Ne says, if I look at the world and explore all the possibilities, I can find the answer, a truth, the solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Seriously....using FiNe makes Ni seem rather unimpressive to me. The demi-god status of it 'round these parts makes me roll my eyes. I like the simple descriptions, as there's no pretense of mystery or superiority. They actually make sense & ring true to me because of it. Of course, I hate having my Fi oversimplified, so I can understand why Ni-doms become all poetic in describing their precious thought process. :P
    Haha, I know. There's that INTJ tendency to sound so darned sure too and in the process, somewhat condescending.

    Ooooh, but here's a cushy sweetie hug from PB for any irascible INTJ's!

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Behavior-wise, when dealing with others, the easiest way to spot Ni is the "context shifting." This concept of context shifting doesn't come straight from Jung, but it is present in the Myers-Briggs and Lenore Thomson literature, among others. It's useful to be aware of this effect both to spot it in others and to be aware of when doing it oneself if one is strongly Ni.
    Yes, it's this sense that we just changed gears but I wasn't prepared for it, or that the rules are being re-written as we are discussing an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I'm fairly sure that's Ne. It's finding new (objective) possibilities.
    Yes, I was sure it was Ne but did want to leave room for alternate explanation.

    Here's an example of Ni from my perspective, of the "spooky" sort. I was once watching one of those corny Twilight-Zone-like shows back in the 90s [Tales from the Crypt, if I recall correctly], where there is always a twist in the plot, usually totally unexpected. This particular story was about an old man who has died, his pretty trophy wife, and his two sons. There is also another son who left long ago, estranged, and is only mentioned in passing. They're arguing about the inheritance, and the sons don't want the trophy wife to have a share. Without going over the entire story, which I barely remember, I'll tell you my Ni insight. I thought, "Oh, the wife is really the missing son, with a sex change," after watching it for about 5 minutes.
    Thanks for that great example uumlau.

    That twist would annoy me frankly, because it rewrites an assumed gender role, and would only be understood, as you say, through the context shift. To me, it's a weak plot device.

    Although, if I were watching the same show, I would wonder why the son was mentioned at all, would then infer that he would become a factor at some point or else would not be in the story, and then cycle through possibilities Ne-style to see what reasoning the writer had to place him in the plot at all and if there was reason as to when they chose to introduce his character.

    But I confess: to me, if you have to rewrite the initial premise, the assumptive rules we started off with to explain your story, it's a pretty lame story. I don't mind being surprised, not at all. I think that kind of twist is cheap.

    The most important aspect of Ni in this regard is that we don't disregard particular possibilities based conventional notions of likelihood, but rather we allow/disallow contexts based on whether they "work." As long as the context is self consistent (kind of like Ti), we'll keep an open mind about it. If it's the ONLY possible context, it sounds like we just predicted something magically, by "just knowing." It even feels like that to ourselves.
    That's very thought-provoking, and @bold: I think that's the key - part of my reasoning will include a probability factor, so the least likely solution remains the least likely one, until I gain new evidence to the contrary. Not all ideas initially get the benefit of a level playing field, even if consistent, especially if they are patently ridiculous ideas that defy other "rules" - like those of human behaviour, for example.

    So I guess you could say human (or Fi rules if you prefer) are the "trump card" for me. A story makes no sense if it regularly violates these tenets ... it's one of the reasons why I read so little fiction, because most writers have no concept on how to create this type of consistency.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #126
    Paragon Gone Wrong Array OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    The more people try and make Ni seem all mystical, the more I think it's really lame and they're just trying to hide their unexceptional thought process behind some shroud of mystery.

    Okay....if Feeling is a function, then & Fe & Fi are have the same function but with different attitudes, meaning they both judge value but Fe uses external standards & Fi uses an inner vision of the ideal ("primordial images" arising from the unconscious collective, blah blah blah). So this means both Ne & Ni as Intuition have the same function, but they have different attitudes, so Ne sees possibilities implied by external objects and Ni sees possibilities implied by images that arise from the unconscious. So this makes sense that Ne attempts to change the external world and Ni may just shift perspective.

    Some Jung to consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung
    Introverted and extroverted intuitives may be distinguished according to whether intuition is directed inwards, to the inner vision, or outwards, to action and achievement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jung on Ni
    The remarkable indifference of the extraverted intuitive to external objects is shared by the introverted intuitive in relation to inner objects. Just as the extroverted intuitive is constantly scenting out new possibilities...so the introverted intuitive moves from image to image, chasing after every possibility in the teeming womb of the unconscious ...
    This is why NFPs are obviously waaay cooler than NFJs - we use TWO abstract thought processes as our main forms of cognition, and NFJs just use one, coupled with Fe which is so straight-forward (even if its shallow charm is addictive). Muwhaha!
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Closer to its spirit would be a defining it with a Zen kōan, e.g., "Two hands clap and there is a sound. What is the sound of one hand?"
    The answer is obviously "fapping".

  8. #128
    Away with the fairies Array Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    The more people try and make Ni seem all mystical, the more I think it's really lame and they're just trying to hide their unexceptional thought process behind some shroud of mystery.

    Okay....if Feeling is a function, then & Fe & Fi are have the same function but with different attitudes, meaning they both judge value but Fe uses external standards & Fi uses an inner vision of the ideal ("primordial images" arising from the unconscious collective, blah blah blah). So this means both Ne & Ni as Intuition have the same function, but they have different attitudes, so Ne sees possibilities implied by external objects and Ni sees possibilities implied by images that arise from the unconscious. So this makes sense that Ne attempts to change the external world and Ni may just shift perspective.

    This is why NFPs are obviously waaay cooler than NFJs - we use TWO abstract thought processes as our main forms of cognition, and NFJs just use one, coupled with Fe which is so straight-forward (even if its shallow charm is addictive). Muwhaha!
    Interesting. Then you think Ni is more about realisation and acceptance of things as they are, whereas Ne is naturally inclined to pursue change and reformation?

    Definitely way cooler! We're so supremely vague and impractical! :-D
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    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #129
    Paragon Gone Wrong Array OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Interesting. Then you think Ni is more about realisation and acceptance of things as they are, whereas Ne is naturally inclined to pursue change and reformation?

    Definitely way cooler! We're so supremely vague and impractical! :-D
    I think Ne pursues external change for the sake of it & Ni shifts perspective for the sake of it (not content with things as they are, but content to explore the inner image only), but when the J function comes in to play they have actual goals beyond exploration, which means the Ni perspective shift may lead to a motivation to do something in the external world or to relate it to something to come to a judgment.

    I have suggested before that INFPs are possibly the most ornamental type. We're like art - we require no practical function :P.
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx - 451| RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive

  10. #130
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think Ne pursues external change for the sake of it & Ni shifts perspective for the sake of it (not content with things as they are, but content to explore the inner image only), but when the J function comes in to play they have actual goals beyond exploration, which means the Ni perspective shift may lead to a motivation to do something in the external world or to relate it to something to come to a judgment.

    I have suggested before that INFPs are possibly the most ornamental type. We're like art - we require no practical function :P.
    I'm not sure if "pursues external change" is quite correct, but close. Your suggestion of "Ni shifts perspective for the sake of it" is pretty darn good, at least w/r to understanding Ni as a dominant function. It's probably just "shifting perspective" considered as a function alone, rather than as a type. Might I suggest "ponders external possibilities" for Ne? I've always had a sense of looking for new things that don't necessarily exist, for Ne, not merely acting on and changing the world, which is more of a Te/Fe thing.


    Oooh, two abstract functions, eh? Well try Ni + Fi on for size, and trying to explain those ideas to the rest of creation! Bwahahahah!

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