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  1. #101
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    For me, Ni often manifests by showing me, in a sudden flash of insight, that the problem we have been trying to solve is in fact the wrong problem. By looking at it from a different perspective, especially by questioning or discarding certain assumptions, a workable solution becomes obvious.

  2. #102
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Pronouns=/=functions. Then I say that the function Ni is a hypothosis. That seems to sum up the internal inspiration pretty well. However I don't know how to compare Ni with foresight which one with it is said to possess. Perhaps it's still a hypothosis?
    To extend your metaphor, Ni is multiple hypotheses. Each context is a guess. Most of them don't work. Sometimes one works very well.

    The moment one has a guess that works REALLY well, it also turns out to be predictive, sometimes extremely so.

    The main thing to note is that it's kind of random, and scattershot, not really precise. It seems precise because INTJs filter what they say until they are sure it is correct.

  3. #103
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    So does Te constrict Ni when it's being used?

    To Uumlau: Do you think this randomnity is a good description for the foresight? I have to think about this question a little more... Actually would you say that 'scattershot' is a good description to describe the foresight? I mean to say that because you're amassing a great deal of plausibilities it's almost impossible for an insight not to occur.

  4. #104
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    So does Te constrict Ni when it's being used?
    Not constrict: it focuses. Ni without a judging function is extremely unfocused. Too many possibilities, no means of choosing a particular context. Fe also provides a context.

  5. #105
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I'll be back on soon. I'm getting into it because I think this is going somewhere.

  6. #106
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    So does Te constrict Ni when it's being used?
    Aux Te serves as filter and apparently a less crazier filter than Ter Ti.

    To Uumlau: Do you think this randomnity is a good description for the foresight? I have to think about this question a little more... Actually would you say that 'scattershot' is a good description to describe the foresight? I mean to say that because you're amassing a great deal of plausibilities it's almost impossible for an insight not to occur.
    I disagree with what your hinting here. It's not about numbers. Ne can make as many ideas as Ni. It's about E vs. I. Or "where do you get ideas?".

    Foresight is the result of preferring(and being good at) a function that looks for answers.

  7. #107
    Ginkgo
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    Ni is obviously that wormhole Donnie Darko talked about that allows you to see into the predetermined future.


  8. #108
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    donnie darko is one hell of a Ni-ish movie.

    thanks for the examples of Ni in action, uumlau. that was exactly what i was hoping to read about at some point. make a lot of sense, too. i better understand how foresight/"following a pattern through" is Ni, now. it's reiterating a pattern and filling in the blank to reach the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft
    Foresight is the result of preferring(and being good at) a function that looks for answers.
    yeah. if i understand correctly, Ni hones in to produce an answer that should be clear from the existing pattern. maybe it'll take a couple test iterations, but once the answer presents itself, it will be most clear.

  9. #109
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post

    yeah. if i understand correctly, Ni hones in to produce an answer that should be clear from the existing pattern. maybe it'll take a couple test iterations, but once the answer presents itself, it will be most clear.
    As much as I placed confidence in my statement, I'm still confused about how internally oriented ideation becomes prediction seeking pursuit. I understand that when you shift your perspective, you first arrive at a conclusion (a perspective). The process then acts wherein multiple perspectives are filtered through judgement and then you are left with the 'answer'. But answer is not necessarily foresight.

    Ni utilizes its independence from the external to form 'unsituational', perception-oriented connections; this can occasionally manifest into prediction. I guess I've fallen prey to what I've preached as undesirable. haha. I don't think Foresight is directly related to Ni. An indirect, unintended result perhaps but not completely stemming from the function itself.

  10. #110
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I'm fairly sure that's Ne. It's finding new (objective) possibilities.

    Ni instead finds the new perspective that explains why process X isn't working right.

    Ne starts with kind of a home base that might be regarded as Si (I don't particularly mean the function, but rather as the other end of the Ne/Si dichotomy). There is an internal subjective point of view, "the box" if you will, and it works outward from that. Notice that the notion of "house" and "apartment" and "rent" and all the rest remained constant. You put the concepts together in a new way.

    Here's an example of Ni from my perspective, of the "spooky" sort. I was once watching one of those corny Twilight-Zone-like shows back in the 90s [Tales from the Crypt, if I recall correctly], where there is always a twist in the plot, usually totally unexpected. This particular story was about an old man who has died, his pretty trophy wife, and his two sons. There is also another son who left long ago, estranged, and is only mentioned in passing. They're arguing about the inheritance, and the sons don't want the trophy wife to have a share. Without going over the entire story, which I barely remember, I'll tell you my Ni insight. I thought, "Oh, the wife is really the missing son, with a sex change," after watching it for about 5 minutes.

    I was proven absolutely correct at the end of the show!

    The "context shift" part is obvious: I replace "wife" with "son," which seems absolutely ludicrous, absurd.

    What went on inside my head is how the context shifts happen. I'm given elements A, B, C, D, and formula f(A,B,C,D), which is unknown. f(A,B,C,D) is the context. I switch from f() being the story in its context to the context of "what would I want to do to give this story a twilight zone flavor with elements A, B, C and D?" Remember, one of the rules is that they have to tell you everything you need to know, so that they can point back at it and show how you were looking at it all wrong. At this point, the missing son was highlighted as a problem element in the story. He was mentioned too much. In a typical story, he might show up in the finale, and reconcile with everyone, including the trophy wife. But that option I rejected as too normal. The most "elegant" solution was that the missing son was already present, and the only way for the missing son to be already present was for him to be the trophy wife.
    I think the reason it seems absurd is because it's so twisted. When you deliver a statement like that, it's as though you've created entirely new details to be woven into the plot, and those details just "happen" to be the case. But, epistemologically, you were given all of the data and you shifted the way you looked at it. You saw past the facade. Here's a question I have for you, though. When you experience a perspective shift, do you consider it to be an absolute truth, or an alternative speculation that holds just as much weight?

    From the sound of your post, it seems more like you're looking through a facade. That's not because you claim your insights to be true, but you recognize the inconsistencies within the impression of the circumstances. You knew something wasn't quite solved with the Twilight episode, and similarly, something was atypical about the long name.

    In my experience with the forumers here, Ni users always foresee escalating future events through observance of slightly atypical circumstances. Like, let's say that a new member with a particular character joins the forum. An Ni user may instinctively know that there may be a rash of similar forum members to usher in the future. Would you say this is true?

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