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  1. #1
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Default Social/energised introverts and unenergetic extroverts?

    Okay, so I did make a thread on my possible E-ness, but this idea is a sort of branching off of that, so I thought I'd make a thread with a more interesting name that was more relevant.

    So anyway, it had been suggested that I was an ENTP as opposed to INTP, mainly because I seemed rather social and had occasional visible bursts of Ne randomness, and at first I dismissed it, but like everything, I soon found I could not be happy with the issue unclosed, as there was some evidence to say I may be more extroverted, and the source of confusion is this. The definitions of introversion and extroversion don't always entirely seem to line up with the functions.

    I always feel like a Ti dom, really, and I always score the same in function tests (though I realise there is a possibility of subconscious bias since I usually can tell what function a question is asking about, though I try to be objective). I am cautious and analytical, and I look into things deeply if they interest me. I prefer closure and hate to leave something unresolved if it means something important to me (like understanding my type, lol) I don't like to rush into things and let my Ne get out of hand, I always search for accuracy and truth and prefer not to draw conclusions until I have examined different perspectives and all the evidence fits in. Even if I do make quick conclusions, it is usually in expectation of a rebuttal so I can see clearly where my logic has gone wrong. I will sometimes switch between ideas and create tangents rather quickly, but most of the time I become very detail oriented and focused on a small area while everyone else moves on to another topic of the conversation. Unlike ENTPs who supposedly love them, I often become very tired of arguments and may often simply give up completely, but my desire to find an accurate conclusion and prove it often leads me to continuing in debates beyond the point of comfort and I can be relentlessly critical at times.

    On the other hand, I'm not that unsocial (at least for an INTP, usually considered the most introverted type). In fact, I'm probably more social than the majority of my (all IP, coincidentally) friends. If I am left alone too long, I get bored. I need some sort of stimulation, and in fact this is usually social, though when I have something that interests me enough, I don't need to socialise much (not much lately, been rather uninspired). I am shy about it, but I like to have friends around a lot of the time, and while I sometimes need to retreat, I seem to have a longer preference for having other people (though only friends) around than most of those I am close to. After school I will wait with them long after I should be going home. I also sometimes feel the need to initiate events, mostly because they rarely do so, as opposed to the responding style introverts are meant to have, although I prefer not to unless I have to and would rather have events unfold around me. But I do often like events to unfold, and stagnation bores me and causes me to spend too much time thinking about the same things over and over. Seemingly in opposition to this style, however, when I am around my friends, at least in larger groups, I can be very untalkative. This isn't always true, and sometimes I can bring a lot of energy to the conversation, but often I will spend long periods of time with others detatched and silent. I will tune in and tune out when it suits me and frequently go into deep thought. Perhaps I get my introvert recharging while I am still in groups? Or maybe I just don't need that much time to "recharge". It seems strange, but I find this easier to do when people around me are talking. I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps it's the fact that I know I can talk to someone and express my thoughts at any time should I so wish, or perhaps it gives me another injection of things to think about when I get bored of what's currently on my mind (I know I can't spend any time NOT thinking). Sometimes I can actually be rather talkative and/or adventurous, though I don't do anything risky. Still, I sometimes do have the crazy/imaginative/random behaviour often associated with ENTPs and Ne. However, this is always harmless and I feel that it is probably just behaviour that my Ti does not feel the need to monitor, since I don't really worry terribly much about others perceptions of me an awful lot and there are no other negative aspects.

    Anyway, all this got me thinking, are we being precocious in assuming someone to be an introvert (of Jungian typology at least) based solely on how much time they spend alone/with other people and how energised and motivated they are for interacting with the world?? Sherlock Holmes (real one obviously) who gets bored enough to inject cocaine when he lacks stimulation is still almost inevitably considered INTJ, INTP or ISTP. I would in no way consider him ENTP or ENTJ or ESTP, as (in my opinion) his strongest function seems to be Ti, yet he is far more energised (yet antisocial) than most fictional introverts, and at least the vast majority of fictional INTPs. On the other end of the spectrum, here on this board we have an ENFP (I think it was marmalade.sunrise, but I apologise if my memory has failed) who is not terribly talkative or energetic apparently, yet scores higher on Ne than Fi. Would this make them an introvert? Or would it just make them a more stoic extrovert?

    So yes, these are my queries and theories. What do you make of them? Do you personally believe I am more of an ENTP or am I a social INTP? Is it perhaps possible that my Fe is simply strongly developed (but poorly utilised)? Do you think a social/energised introvert can exist, at least going by the MBTI definitions and functions? What about an unenergetic extrovert?
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  2. #2
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sherlock Holmes View Post
    Anyway, all this got me thinking, are we being precocious in assuming someone to be an introvert (of Jungian typology at least) based solely on how much time they spend alone/with other people and how energised and motivated they are for interacting with the world??
    When trying to type some of my friends I've noticed that there are many things in play here. The time spent with other people really doesn't tell anything, and the amount you are exhausted by people varies according to the people. I live with three friends, I don't get exhausted by them because the amount of stimulation is something of a pattern. I can predict it so it doesn't cause the over-stimulation for me. The same goes for my other friends, and it even extends to many situations where I basically know what's going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sherlock Holmes View Post
    Do you think a social/energised introvert can exist, at least going by the MBTI definitions and functions?
    I am social in a way, but definitely introverted. I am not craving for stimulation, but I like to be around people.

  3. #3
    ThatGirl
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    I finally came to grips with the fact that I am indeed an E.... A very reclusive, anti social, E.

  4. #4
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I/E indicates expressing as an introvert or extrovert, but you can also respond as an introvert or extrovert, in a way. The other factor besides expressiveness is responsiveness, which is people vs task focuse and the Interaction Styles factor of informing/directing. So while the INTP is introverted, and also has the task-focused "T", it is also "informing", from the P. So they do have a measure of people-focus.

    INP can be either Phlegmatic or a fifth temperament, called Supine. Supine is even more energetic and people-focused than Phlegmatic, so they are said to be extroverted in some way. Yet they are even less expressive than a Phlegmatic. So they will look like a pure I. They simply want more than they express. When this is mixed with a pragmatic NT temperament, that can provide them with a kind of expressiveness also.

    So I too seemed like ENP in some respect.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  5. #5
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I/E indicates expressing as an introvert or extrovert, but you can also respond as an introvert or extrovert, in a way. The other factor besides expressiveness is responsiveness, which is people vs task focuse and the Interaction Styles factor of informing/directing. So while the INTP is introverted, and also has the task-focused "T", it is also "informing", from the P. So they do have a measure of people-focus.

    INP can be either Phlegmatic or a fifth temperament, called Supine. Supine is even more energetic and people-focused than Phlegmatic, so they are said to be extroverted in some way. Yet they are even less expressive than a Phlegmatic. So they will look like a pure I. They simply want more than they express. When this is mixed with a pragmatic NT temperament, that can provide them with a kind of expressiveness also.

    So I too seemed like ENP in some respect.
    I haven't heard of these temperaments before, but I took a test and this is what I got.

    Choleric - 37
    Phlegmatic - 55
    Melancholic - 64
    Sanguine - 41
    Supine - 54

    I'm a mix of melancholic, supine and phlegmatic (awful name, reminds me of phlegm), with my strongest being melancholic. Apparently.
    JiNe
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    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

  6. #6
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I finally came to grips with the fact that I am indeed an E.... A very reclusive, anti social, E.
    I can somewhat relate.

    Either that, or just some introvert who needs to get out a little :confused: And I don't relate to "silent, enigmatic Fi". If I got a dollar for every time I was happy to share my POV or rationale, I'd be a rich man.

    I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    I think you're an INTP, I think you should ask "why", what is behind your motivations, your values/worldview, instead of focusing soley on your behaviour/what you are doing at a specific moment(which can change to a finite degree depending on the situation). I myself am not always doing logical deduction in my head, most of the time I just daydream, chill/take walks, listen to music, surf the internet, ect., Ti is an attitude(or tendency) that your view on impersonal/truth/whatever is from a personal source, you are the final arbiter on what you decide is consistent/valid or what makes the most sense to you, you don't believe experts just because they're experts, Te is more an collective/objective approach to impersonal logic. I think INTPs and ENTPs might be the closest introvert/extrovert pair that shares the same function(as in NFPs, STJs, SFPs, ect.), as Ne itself is not entirely(maybe not even mostly) concerned with social interaction as an end of itself, it sounds more like mental stimulation to me. Just my ramblings.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    You are intp with high Ne. I got a entp friend(who i have known for 11 years) who is pretty close of being an intp(high Ti) and im an intp with high Ne, so i can see the differences between entp with high Ti and intp with high Ne pretty well(at least in most cases) and you definitely seem much more intp than entp. looking at those videos of yours i can see the intp behavior pretty clearly, actually you dont seem E at all in them, more like a intp with high I.

    I think best way to tell the difference between intp with high Ne and entp with high Ti is to look at Si, Fe, Te and Ni and what kind of roles those functions have on you. Intp will use Te more naturally(since its the first shadow function of intp), while entp will use Ni easier(since its the first shadow function of entp). Entp will use Fe better and it will have stronger/more clear role when interacting with other people, it comes out easier(and has slightly evil vibe on it) on entp when someone is pissing him off, while intp usually doesent bother attacking back with Fe. Fe seems to come out in entp easily if he is just generally pissed off/bored/frustrated, its more that he will restrict what he wants to do or will come off as really annoyed and doesent want to do anything and is acting quite childish and he might even have no reason for this at all(or cant see the reason because of low Si).
    Last summer we were hanging out with my entp(and his gf), infp friend and some friend of gf of the entp. entp suddenly got annoyed for no clear reason and started teasing his gf too much(with that slightly evil Fe) all the time trying to piss her off and wouldnt stop it even after his gf got pissed off clearly. she asked why he is behaving like that, he didnt know. she allowed him to smoke a cigarette(he doesent smoke often/isnt addicted to nicotine and his gf doesent like him smoking at all), shortly after she confronted him and he had a cigarette he calmed down, went bit I for a moment and then went back to normal self. Other thing that shows his Fe is when you annoy him, he always has to attack you twice as much. But he can also show Fe in healthy ways like when we went to his countryside with 10+ people he was a good host etc etc, but not forcing his hosting in Fe dom way. I think these are some things that intp wouldnt do that easily, not to mention that intps(or at least me) know whats causing me to be pissed off every time because of Si.

    i could write few more things, but i gotta go now
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I finally came to grips with the fact that I am indeed an E.... A very reclusive, anti social, E.
    I told you so.

  10. #10
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sherlock Holmes View Post
    I haven't heard of these temperaments before, but I took a test and this is what I got.

    Choleric - 37
    Phlegmatic - 55
    Melancholic - 64
    Sanguine - 41
    Supine - 54

    I'm a mix of melancholic, supine and phlegmatic (awful name, reminds me of phlegm), with my strongest being melancholic. Apparently.
    Ever tried this one:
    Temperament by Inclusion, Control and Affection

    It sorts them according to areas of personality. Two of them would seem to fit.
    I think in a lot of INTP's, the Choleric is being "mellowed out" into Melancholic. But it would be what gives us a kind of aggressiveness, and ties into the Thinking and iNtuitiveness.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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