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  1. #41
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    For me, this is like a question from hell...

    Type, theoretically, should absolutely be the winner. It's just that personality type systems are often so riddled with problems or applied so incorrectly that they tell one nothing at all. Personality type is one of those frustrating things where we can know something is knowable, but not know how to know that thing. Not yet, anyway.

    With gender, there is possibly some merit in making a guess about someone's personality based on it (as much as I hate to say it) if you have a good understanding of the culture of the person you are dealing with. Biological differences aside, genders are conditioned differently everywhere. This means that when comparing gender assessment could be more affective than any number of completely awful personality type systems.

    But really, if you can hold a personality type system up to some basic standards in its design and application (something that has been surprisingly hard for people to do), it should be more accurate because it should reflect details about the mind of the individual being typed, and that's more reliable because (here we go again) even if you swallow all the purported evidence of gender differences, individuals within a gender are on average more different from each other than the two genders are collectively different from each other.

    And the usual disclaimer follows that if you are trying to do a case study of someone, you can probably just forget about gender and personality type. They might hurt you more than help you in understanding all of a single subject's potentially deviant nuances.
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  2. #42
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    So F-women are that way because of conditioning and T women aren't because they're not susceptible to conditioning? F is the "susceptible to conditioning" trait? I don't buy it. What about F men?
    For F women and T men, cultural conditioning reinforces innate tendencies. For T women and F men, the influences are opposing. Which wins out depends upon circumstances that include the strength of the vying influences. Fe may be the "susceptible to conditioning" trait, if there is one, due to its orientation to external values. Te may produce similar results, since it may cause a person to see some logic in conforming to get what they really want. Certain types are probably more resistant to conditioning than others, but individual upbringing will play a strong role as well. Obviously this is all an oversimplification, but it lends some insight into gender dynamics. Annwn explored the complexity in greater depth.

    As for whether the various preferences are on a continuum or exclusive opposites, I have read contradictory claims. It may help to remember that T, F, S, and N are functions, while E, I, P, and J are considered attitudes. Everyone uses every function, at least to some degree, so it makes sense that these fall on continua. Some functions take on an attitude of E, others of I, but one's overall orientation (as the referenced brain studies suggest) tends to be either/or.

    Finally, to Slowriot: what differences do you see between male and female F's, or female and male T's? In my experience, I get along more with people of similar type of either gender, than with people of the same gender but much different type. I have always had close friends (friends, not romantic interests) of both genders as well.

  3. #43
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    I reckon women tend to score higher on agreeableness because most are SFJs and therefore extroverted feelers.
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  4. #44
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    I score relatively low for a female on agreeableness.

    Of course, that's probably because I have Fi, not Fe.

  5. #45
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    All you are doing here is stating your beliefs. Where is the evidence? I've studied gender in some depth, looking for concrete differences, and I haven't been able to come up with anything compelling. Frustrating as that is.

    It seems absurd to me that you can suppose putting someone into one of two categories based on primary sexual characteristics could tell you more about how that individual thinks than knowing which of the 16 MBTI types best fit that individual.

    Your version of "understanding" seems to consist of simply reinforcing stereotypes. I think we can all do without that kind of understanding.
    Yes, I am stating my beliefs which have been formed based on personal experience. There were also numerous studies referenced at the bottom of the Wikipedia article if I recall correctly. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share.

    Don't put words in my mouth about "my version of understanding," or at least try and not to get caught up in the precision of language that I'm using. I'm raising questions on a topic that I think is important. I'm certain there are differences but I'm not sure I really fully comprehend them. That's why I created the OP.

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  6. #46
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    I generally have an easier time relating to women than to men. I don't know why exactly. Part of it is that typical male interests are often not interesting to me at all and I am just "faking it" part of the time. Like if they start talking about cars... good god, just shoot me. Beyond where the gas and the key goes, what else is there to talk about? Unless we want to talk about the future of cars as a whole, I'm not interested. I don't care about what kind of engine you have in there or what the horsepower is, I really don't. I probably don't even know what you drive unless I've ridden with you a lot.

    What was I talking about? Oh yeah, somehow it is just easier with women for me. So, I don't think gender is the primary thing. Maybe it is type, maybe it is something else.

  7. #47
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Why would a categorization system of two be more helpful than one that has 16? Especially since it is not even certain which traits can legitimately be ascribed to the male or female categories. This question doesn't even make any sense.
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  8. #48
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Why would a categorization system of two be more helpful than one that has 16? Especially since it is not even certain which traits can legitimately be ascribed to the male or female categories. This question doesn't even make any sense.
    On reason is that gender tends to be relatively obvious whereas the 16 types are not. You don't need to guess.

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  9. #49
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    On reason is that gender tends to be relatively obvious whereas the 16 types are not. You don't need to guess.
    Oh, so the real question is "which is more helpful for the lazy, overly-concrete person in understanding people - type or gender?"
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  10. #50
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh, so the real question is "which is more helpful for the lazy, overly-concrete person in understanding people - type or gender?"
    And you say the question doesn't make sense?

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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