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  1. #111
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I learned from the best! @The Great One

    I'm so proud of you. You are coming along nicely.

  2. #112
    Member Cantus Firmus's Avatar
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    As an INFP male, I tend to relate more to most women than I do to most men. I think type matters more than gender, once you account for the statistical distribution of types anong the genders (as the OP noted). I don't define myself by my gender; I do define myself by the elements of my personality. "Introvert" tells you much more about me than "male" does.

    So I agree that those who match their genders' typical types may be conflating what comes from their type and what comes from their gender.
    5w4 9w1 4w5
    "Some pithy saying that exemplifies my type, though it border on cliché."

  3. #113
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    I doubt it's all that big a shock to find that most women would have it go through their minds if they found themselves alone in an alley late at night and saw a man following and gaining ground on her. It has nothing to do with confidence and ability and everything to do with using your smarts to know you could have a problem if you don't think fast. Confidence. Geesh. It's common sense as a female to know it's possible. And, much more so than for a man to think the same in the same situation.
    I wrote that rape is not a day-to-day worry for women as much as the previous poster suggested. I am assuming that most women (or even most men) don't find themselves alone in a dark alley late at night being followed by a stranger on a regular basis. Anyone in that situation should be aware of the risks. "Using your smarts" to know you could have a problem and to think fast has everything to do with confidence and ability. Awareness, preparedness, and ability all fuel confidence, and a confident attitude is one aspect of a sound defense.

    Like Salomé, I don't worry much about rape, but for almost opposite reasons. I am always evaluating situations for risk, assessing what my resources and options would be, and taking appropriate precautions and preparations. I don't focus on rape, but rather crime/assault in general, which could be mugging, carjacking, even an active shooter situation. Also emergencies like car breakdown, fire, sudden illness especially while travelling, money trouble while travelling, etc. Life is full of risks. These realities then become not so much sources of worry, but factors that influence my choices and actions, like any other.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #114
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Gender.
    At the heart of it all a woman is still a woman at the core.
    I have dated an ISFP and an INTJ and both of them, at some point, was hurt when I (unknowingly) shrugged off intimate 'us' talk. So while the INTJ exibitied similar traits of NT thought and behaviour to me (the mential connection was off the chain), she still desired that closeness that all women want, regardless of type.

    I even know some ESTJ chicks. Cold, hard, chicks, who 'changed' when I didn't give them that feminine attention.
    Type's secondary in gender relations.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Like Salomé, I don't worry much about rape, but for almost opposite reasons. I am always evaluating situations for risk, assessing what my resources and options would be, and taking appropriate precautions and preparations. I don't focus on rape, but rather crime/assault in general, which could be mugging, carjacking, even an active shooter situation. Also emergencies like car breakdown, fire, sudden illness especially while travelling, money trouble while travelling, etc. Life is full of risks. These realities then become not so much sources of worry, but factors that influence my choices and actions, like any other.
    You Te types can be so boring sometimes, always preparing for all of the possible problems in advance, thinking way ahead and such. But that takes away the epic magical randomness!

  6. #116
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Let us all come together and bond over not getting attention from our men because suddenly I can talk to you for you understand the most important part of me, my need for male attention.
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  7. #117
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I see at least one obvious problem: the widely cited conclusions are absurd. Not to mention, unfounded.
    We have known about structural differences in the brains of men and women for some time : for example, that women have proportionally more grey matter (brain cells) and men more white (connective tissue). However, given that we have such limited understanding of how brains work, we have no basis for drawing conclusions about what any such structural differences might mean. To jump from "the left and right hemispheres are better connected in women" to "women are more analytical AND intuitive" is patently absurd. About as valid as the "science" of 19th century phrenology.

    I am interested in brain lateralisation, and I find it unsurprising that women's brains might be more highly "integrated" than men's are, and we know of at least one mechanism for mediating such differences, in that testosterone is neurotoxic and effectively "prunes" adolescent male brains more severely than is the case for adolescent non-male brains, and that this process probably starts in utero. However, we don't know enough to draw sound conclusions about innate gender-specific abilities / disabilities that might arise thereby or whether these might be acquired more by nature or nurture, especially when research exists which overturns long-held assumptions about "innate" differences in, for example, math ability. (http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/3...-trump-nature/)

    What we can be certain of, is that human brains are highly plastic by default and that individual differences are much more significant than those that can be attributed to gender. Also that the effects of nurture on the postnatal brain are at least, if not more, important then those of nature in determining adult capacities. We know, for example, that a brain primed by nature to excel in the use of language will nevertheless result in a completely dumb, illiterate adult if the critical period for acquiring language does not include appropriate stimuli / learning experiences. Above all else, we are creatures with an enhanced capacity to learn from others. I believe that innate differences in our capacity to acquire different skills owe more to typological difference than to gender. In fact, statistics prove this to be the case. The best people in any field outperform the vast majority of the population (of either gender). This would not be true if gender were more highly deterministic than other factors.

    What is odd is that highlander would try to use this study to support his prejudices, when it actually appears to do the opposite. I guess he got distracted by the headline and ignored the content. A common enough mistake.
    That's a good post until you got to the last paragraph. I'm not supporting anything. I just said it was interesting.

    Stop trolling me.

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  8. #118
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Gender.
    At the heart of it all a woman is still a woman at the core.
    I have dated an ISFP and an INTJ and both of them, at some point, was hurt when I (unknowingly) shrugged off intimate 'us' talk. So while the INTJ exibitied similar traits of NT thought and behaviour to me (the mential connection was off the chain), she still desired that closeness that all women want, regardless of type.

    I even know some ESTJ chicks. Cold, hard, chicks, who 'changed' when I didn't give them that feminine attention.
    Type's secondary in gender relations.
    Weird, I've never dated a guy who didn't want the "feminine" closeness and attention you describe. It's almost like connection is a universal human desire or something. At least if you're looking for more than a fuck buddy.
    -end of thread-

  9. #119
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Gender.
    At the heart of it all a woman is still a woman at the core.
    I have dated an ISFP and an INTJ and both of them, at some point, was hurt when I (unknowingly) shrugged off intimate 'us' talk. So while the INTJ exibitied similar traits of NT thought and behaviour to me (the mential connection was off the chain), she still desired that closeness that all women want, regardless of type.

    I even know some ESTJ chicks. Cold, hard, chicks, who 'changed' when I didn't give them that feminine attention.
    Type's secondary in gender relations.
    The OPs question was which helps us understand someone more, gender or type?

    I point this out because I would say type helps us understand someone more. But gender, by a strong margin, helps us "deal" with someone in day to day life. By which I mean, if we want to befriend, socialize with, convince, seduce, relate to etc etc someone it is much more helpful to know their gender than to know their type. This is not because their gender, as a trait, explains more than their type, or defines more of their personality, but because people don't fulfill the roles of ESFJs or ESTJ etc in real life, they fulfill the roles of men and women. Furthermore, they are expected to fill such roles and are aware on some level they fulfill those roles and identify with such roles. In other words, if you want to interact with someone you have to interact with the person you are supposed to think they are--man or a woman, with who that person actually is being of less direct importance.

    Have you ever thought that maybe those ex-girlfriends were upset because your disregard of the "done" gender relations suggested you didn't care for them? That you weren't willing to fulfill your gendered responsibility and it was this that bothered them more so than a loss of intimate conversation?
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  10. #120
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Weird, I've never dated a guy who didn't want the "feminine" closeness and attention you describe. It's almost like connection is a universal human desire or something. At least if you're looking for more than a fuck buddy.
    Based on this post by the OP:

    A few more relevant tidbits below. A lot of it seems like T vs F. I don't know....

    "Misunderstandings stem from differing interaction styles
    Men and women have different ways of showing support, interest and caring
    Men and women often perceive the same message in different ways
    Women tend to see communication more as a way to connect and enhance the sense of closeness in the relationship
    Men see communication more as a way to accomplish objectives
    Women give more response cues and nonverbal cues to indicate interest and build a relationship
    Men use feedback to signal actual agreement and disagreement
    For women, "ums" "uh-huhs" and "yeses" simply mean they are showing interest and being responsive
    For men, these same responses indicate is agreement or disagreement with what is being communicated
    For women, talking is the primary way to become closer to another person
    For men, shared goals and accomplishing tasks is the primary way to become close to another person
    Men are more likely to express caring by doing something concrete for or doing something together with another person
    Women can avoid being hurt by men by realizing how men communicate caring
    Men can avoid being hurt by women by realizing how women communicate caring
    Women who want to express caring to men can do so more effectively by doing something for them or doing something with them
    Men who want to express caring to women can do so more effectively by verbally communicating that they care
    Men emphasize independence and are therefor less likely to ask for help in accomplishing an objective
    Men are much less likely to ask for directions when they are lost than women
    Men desire to maintain autonomy and to not appear weak or incompetent
    Women develop identity within relationships more than men
    Women seek out and welcome relationships with others more than men
    Men tend to think that relationships jeopardize their independence
    For women, relationships are a constant source of interest, attention and communication
    For men, relationships are not as central
    The term "Talking about us" means very different things to men and women
    Men feel that there is no need to talk about a relationship that is going well
    Women feel that a relationship is going well as long as they are talking about it
    Women can avoid being hurt by realizing that men don't necessarily feel the need to talk about a relationship that is going well
    Men can help improve communication in a relationship by applying the rules of feminine communication
    Women can help improve communication in a relationship by applying the rules of masculine communication
    Just as Western communication rules wouldn't necessarily apply in an Asian culture, masculine rules wouldn't necessarily apply in a feminine culture, and vice verse."
    My experiences are based on the itialicized last few lines, which summarize everything above it, and it happens regardless of type.
    I never said I didn't desire a connection. It's just that eventually these roles will play out.

    Men and women often perceive the same message in different ways.

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