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  1. #101
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I may be typical of my type, which is a good thing in my opinion. But the ways in which I think females are similar due to similar experience apply to me too.

    For instance, due to greater vulnerability to being raped, women will perceive certain things in a more threatening manner than men will.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yeah, you've just illustrated my point. There are some things which are nearly universal among women, which one can't really say about type. Or maybe we can; I do sometimes on here and get criticized for it.
    Not every woman goes through life worrying from day to day that she will be raped. I certainly don't. I'm sure more women worry about it than men do, partly because most rape victims are women, and partly because women are often not raised with the confidence and self-sufficiency to counteract that fear. It is not the defining feature you make it out to be. (But we've had this discussion elsewhere.)

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    FWIW I just want to say again that a big part of feminist theory would not exist if people didn't think there were any differences between the genders.
    Thinking there is a difference doesn't make it so. For generations people insisted on significant racial differences in intelligence and other abilities, differences that were not supported by evidence once people bothered to examine it. People even once thought the earth was flat, and at the center of the universe. Considerable scholarly effort went into refuting these claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    It's all God's fault; he dictated your incarnation onto the weaker of the 2 human spectral ends.
    How biblical. This is the misguided and insidious message of the Adam and Eve story, which has probably contributed more to misogyny over the generations than any other cultural element. It can be a herculean effort for a woman (or man) to escape the straitjacket of this mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I can't help but laugh when misogynistic men assume all Women think and act like ESF's.
    What's even worse is when women make this assumption.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #102
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    I doubt it's all that big a shock to find that most women would have it go through their minds if they found themselves alone in an alley late at night and saw a man following and gaining ground on her. It has nothing to do with confidence and ability and everything to do with using your smarts to know you could have a problem if you don't think fast. Confidence. Geesh. It's common sense as a female to know it's possible. And, much more so than for a man to think the same in the same situation.
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  3. #103
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    As far as gender or type being more a driving force behind personhood, I would say gender.

    Gender is bombarded by biological drives and environment which encompasses parental guidance, peer pressure, educational pressure, societal pressure and opposite gender stimuli. It's at our core and is reflected in the male and female dichotomies within each type.

    Taking into consideration mistypes on TypeC, there's a clear delineation between genders. Watch behaviour and it will become obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I agree.

    I also notice that there's a very strong trend in this thread for people whose type "aligns" with their gender to say that gender is most important, and for people whose type does not align with their gender to say that type is more important. (I'm no exception.)

    edit: if I'm not mistaken, people from both groups have supported type as the most important, but I haven't seen any female Ts or male Fs saying that gender is the most important factor. I may have missed it, though.
    You missed my post from 2010 which I still agree with. The impacts of estrogen and testosterone are undeniable.

  4. #104
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I may be typical of my type, which is a good thing in my opinion. But the ways in which I think females are similar due to similar experience apply to me too.
    That wasn't my point. I've never been certain what your type is, only that it's not INTP (as you originally claimed). If your assertion were true, irrespective of this you and I would still have more in common than I would with male INTPs. That's not the case. I have a much easier time relating to and understanding other people of my own type, regardless of gender, than people with whom I share gender but not type. Ease of understanding diminishes predictably the more function order varies. It's perhaps harder for you to understand this because your type aligns quite closely with the feminine archetype so you likely confuse the two. It's easier for gender/type combinations which deviate from this pattern to discern the true boundaries.
    The only way to measure the relative accuracy of each system is by examining anomalies.

    T women (and F men) are the black swans of gender essentialism.

    For instance, due to greater vulnerability to being raped, women will perceive certain things in a more threatening manner than men will.
    You should be careful about making these kinds of sweeping statements, given that you do not know what goes on in the heads of other women. My own perception of threat has always been near nonexistent - characteristic of an oblivious INTP. I have always taken fewer precautions and more risks than (I'm told) most men would. I spend no time whatsoever worrying about being raped (or worrying in general). And I haven't been, so it hasn't disadvantaged me. You might argue that women who have been raped or assaulted worry more about being raped than others, but then, so do men who have been raped - such are the effects of trauma. I'll wager that an attractive young man entering prison worries more about rape than a woman entering prison. Fear of rape is a function of (perceived) risk of rape, not a function of gender, so to ascribe any potential differences to gender is to seriously misunderstand the nature of the problem.

    Clearly, sex differences exist (one only has to look at crime or health stats to see evidence of that) and to ignore them is a mistake, but to manufacture them is a bigger one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
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  5. #105
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    @Salomé, you may be right; I would have ventured to say that almost all women are at least aware of the possibility of being raped and of what might constitute a potential threat (and this would have a strong effect on communication), but if you really are as oblivious as you describe and it is type related then it might be more common than I think. I think it is pretty uncommon, but then a lot of women put themselves in dangerous situations seemingly without thinking, so who knows. I do think typology is useful in revealing the falsity of gender stereotypes and facilitating communication in general (and especially in this regard).

    So I'm going to go with both. I do think gender is important in interaction with people, but type (and other individual factors) can be just as important depending on to what degree the person in question relates to their gender archetype.

  6. #106
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    That wasn't my point. I've never been certain what your type is, only that it's not INTP (as you originally claimed). If your assertion were true, irrespective of this you and I would still have more in common than I would with male INTPs. That's not the case. I have a much easier time relating to and understanding other people of my own type, regardless of gender, than people with whom I share gender but not type. Ease of understanding diminishes predictably the more function order varies. It's perhaps harder for you to understand this because your type aligns quite closely with the feminine archetype so you likely confuse the two. It's easier for gender/type combinations which deviate from this pattern to discern the true boundaries.
    The only way to measure the relative accuracy of each system is by examining anomalies.

    T women (and F men) are the black swans of gender essentialism.



    You should be careful about making these kinds of sweeping statements, given that you do not know what goes on in the heads of other women. My own perception of threat has always been near nonexistent - characteristic of an oblivious INTP. I have always taken fewer precautions and more risks than (I'm told) most men would. I spend no time whatsoever worrying about being raped (or worrying in general). And I haven't been, so it hasn't disadvantaged me. You might argue that women who have been raped or assaulted worry more about being raped than others, but then, so do men who have been raped - such are the effects of trauma. I'll wager that an attractive young man entering prison worries more about rape than a woman entering prison. Fear of rape is a function of (perceived) risk of rape, not a function of gender, so to ascribe any potential differences to gender is to seriously misunderstand the nature of the problem.

    Clearly, sex differences exist (one only has to look at crime or health stats to see evidence of that) and to ignore them is a mistake, but to manufacture them is a bigger one.
    Bolded the parts that pretty much speak my own mind on the subject. In my own experiences as both a female and an ENTP, I couldn't have said it better. There is a reason why I'm extremely aware when speaking to F females (which is most of them) AND males of all F types that I need to change the manner in which I communicate and the way I act. Because I can't just wing it and be understood.

    There's also a reason why I can relax much more around male Fs. They're more "T" than the females. Tell the truth, people, when talking to a female T, who is being herself, do you not quickly perceive that difference?

    Leaving the post I quoted behind now. As for the rape business, that's a combo of being aware of your environment as a female and being not dumb about the odds of it more likely occurring if you're female. If the environment is dangerous, you're a fool not to know you could be in danger, period, but if a girl, there's a much better chance that part of that possible danger is rape.

    That said, I won't be fucking bonding with every F chick I meet with this subject, so it's pretty moot to me. There's never going to be a meet and greet, outside of group therapy, that includes, "Hey! I'm afraid of rape too! Let's talk all night and make s'mores!"
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  7. #107
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I'm starting to consider an unsubstantiated hypothesis about T and F women. That T women have higher levels of testosterone with a lower end spectrum of estrogen and F women have lower to mid-level testosterone and higher end estrogen.

    The reason I say this is because of the impacts of testosterone, where it's been documented to reduce empathy and appears to impact on the need for social dominance. Testosterone is also more interested in equity and is also more assertive/aggressive. Even neural pathway carving is heavily impacted during the puberty years, although part of this would be nurture.

  8. #108
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    I'm starting to consider an unsubstantiated hypothesis about T and F women. That T women have higher levels of testosterone with a lower end spectrum of estrogen and F women have lower to mid-level testosterone and higher end estrogen.

    The reason I say this is because of the impacts of testosterone, where it's been documented to reduce empathy and appears to impact on the need for social dominance. Testosterone is also more interested in equity and is also more assertive/aggressive. Even neural pathway carving is heavily impacted during the puberty years, although part of this would be nurture.

    That might be why more men tend to be T's and women, F's as well.
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  9. #109
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    That might be why more men tend to be T's and women, F's as well.
    Possibly, although people have to bear in mind that there are ranges for normal levels of estrogen and testosterone for each biological sex.

  10. #110
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    That said, I won't be fucking bonding with every F chick I meet with this subject, so it's pretty moot to me. There's never going to be a meet and greet, outside of group therapy, that includes, "Hey! I'm afraid of rape too! Let's talk all night and make s'mores!"
    Exactly this - fear/awareness of potential rape (and otherwise recognition of our usually-lower physical strength) is definitely something most women (not all) have in common. However, I really really really don't feel like this is something that affects my personality in a major way. I have lots more in common with an ISTP dude that never thinks about rape at all than I do with an ENFP girl who is conscious of it in the same way I am. It's just really not a big part of my life, or at least the parts of it that don't involve being in deserted places at night. I'm only aware of it when I need to be.
    -end of thread-

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