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  1. #21
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    I think we can change MBTI type but we can't change enneatype. I have always been a 6, but I behave like a very large variety of types. I'm wondering if I was not an ENTP as a kid. It seem that I've always been a sort of ENTP/ISTP hybrid, with true INTP, ESTP and IxFP leanings.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    No; I believe that if you understand the cognitive basis of MBTI rather than drivel tests then you will understand your 'lifelong type'. This in my view would only change with a mental breakdown and personality reconstruction.
    I'm glad that this has come up, this sort of thing is exactly why I started this thread. Care to explain said 'cognitive' basis?
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    I'm glad that this has come up, this sort of thing is exactly why I started this thread. Care to explain said 'cognitive' basis?
    Cognitive basis is like what I touched on in my post...how I am definitely an ENFP because of my cognitive function preferences...(Fi vs. Fe, Te vs. Ti) and those particular functions are quite important because they are your "judging" functions...a person's world view is strongly shaped by whether they prefer Fi and Te or Fe and Ti, and it can cause absurd problems sometimes in communication.

    I simply cannot be INFJ on a cognitive basis.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Cognitive basis is like what I touched on in my post...how I am definitely an ENFP because of my cognitive function preferences...(Fi vs. Fe, Te vs. Ti) and those particular functions are quite important because they are your "judging" functions...a person's world view is strongly shaped by whether they prefer Fi and Te or Fe and Ti, and it can cause absurd problems sometimes in communication.

    I simply cannot be INFJ on a cognitive basis.
    Exactly, being INTJ does not mean I am

    Introvered - hides in a cave
    Intuitive - thinks creatively
    Thinking - uses rationality
    Judging - likes things settled.

    When testing people with the common MBTI tests the accuracy is pretty crap because of how it is believed that you can derive a type based upon individuals thoughts about what they are. Not really true, its about a cognitive bias in how they process between how their concious mind works and their sensory inputs and outputs relate to the environment.

    I am INTJ because I can self identify that I am an introverted intuitive dominant supported by extroverted thinking to reach conclusions and introverted feeling for relief and support. I aspire to properly integrating extroverted sensing. I can go back to being younger and see the traits these would exhibit even from a very young age until today; thus I do not believe my type has changed.

  5. #25
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sherlock Holmes View Post
    I disagree with those who say you can't change type. Why not? After giving it a bit of thought, I was probably XNXP as a child. I'm not so sure about my I and E. I was more adventurous than I was contemplative, whereas now it's the other way around.
    If you felt generically NP as a child, it is possible that you were an undeveloped ENTP and are now a reserved ENTP rather than INTP, or simply that your Ti developed past your Ne.

    I really don't see any reason someone can't change type. Someone's environment can cause them to change the way they think, and sometimes it can just happen naturally. An ISFJ may one day feel they are tired of living a settled, progressive life and feel like just having fun, so they turn into an ESFP and forget all there troubles.
    There's no reason an ISFJ would prefer a settled, progressive life to begin with -- Si does not mean robotic. If an Si user is raised in a very chaotic environment, they will be scattered and chaotic themselves. A better analogy would be that an ISFJ would feel like the voice of experience has failed them, and start paying more attention to their present environment, which might lead to becoming either ESFP, or ESTP.
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  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sherlock Holmes View Post
    I disagree with those who say you can't change type. Why not? After giving it a bit of thought, I was probably XNXP as a child. I'm not so sure about my I and E. I was more adventurous than I was contemplative, whereas now it's the other way around. I really don't see any reason someone can't change type. Someone's environment can cause them to change the way they think, and sometimes it can just happen naturally. An ISFJ may one day feel they are tired of living a settled, progressive life and feel like just having fun, so they turn into an ESFP and forget all there troubles. It is unlikely this would ever happen instantaneously, except perhaps in case of a traumatic event, but over time I think it is entirely possible to change how you judge and percieve.
    This is describing behavior. Behavior & cognition are not the same thing. Cognition can lead to patterns of similar behavior in types, but a lot of it amounts to stereotypes. Most people digress from the prescribed behavior for a type pretty frequently, which is why people talk about their shadow popping up, or being in a dom-tert loop, etc. They are seeking to explain behavior that contradicts their general character from a cognitive function standpoint (whether or not these ideas hold water...). The INFP who is blunt and bossy and demanding may have their "ESTJ business suit" on - their inferior functions are popping up and they've visibly taken on the negative traits of an ESTJ. However, FeNi is still at the wheel - SiTe would not have popped up if some FiNe thought process didn't determine it was necessary to access that thinking.

    However, cognition is not a conscious preference. It's a preference meaning orientation - your brain is pretty much going to automatically default to its preferred way of thinking; under stress this can include your inferior functions which can make you seem very different. What you can end up with are two people displaying similar behavior for very different reasons. That ISFJ who wants to party all the time may have their ENTP party hat on . Believe it or not, the ISFJ who likes to socialize & entertain, but is still responsible, has likely developed Fe better. The aux function "parents" the dominant one, which I take to mean helps it grow to maturity, so a person becomes more well-rounded. My ISFJ mom seems ESFJ-ish at times because her Fe is strongly apparent in social situations, although Si is still quite clearly her dominant way of thinking.

    The likelihood of changing the orientation of your brain seems slim to none; I think Jung asserted that cognitive function is pretty much innate.

    Another issue is, MBTI just seeks to indicate cognitive function, which is not the full spectrum of personality. Personality is quite complex. For instance, enneagram delves into the subconscious emotional motivations of a person and how it affects their self-image & in-turn, their personality. Then of course there is culture, gender, life experience, etc.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Cognitive basis is like what I touched on in my post...how I am definitely an ENFP because of my cognitive function preferences...(Fi vs. Fe, Te vs. Ti) and those particular functions are quite important because they are your "judging" functions...a person's world view is strongly shaped by whether they prefer Fi and Te or Fe and Ti, and it can cause absurd problems sometimes in communication.

    I simply cannot be INFJ on a cognitive basis.
    Oh so you guys are just talking about functions? I expected more to be honest (brain activity or whatnot). I fully agree that simple behavioral factors should not set your type but I can tell you one thing, cognitive functions can change their strengths and priorities a lot more than you think.

    As a child, I was Fi dominant and it was obvious. I had a good Ne too, but my Ne was developed more as social survival function. Fi based topics were the primary focus, not Ne. It wasn't until I immigrated that my Ne really came alive. I didn't have enough friends so I tried using my Ne as a cousin of Fe, everyone likes a joker. At home, I played with my sister a lot - she's 6 years younger than I am. What we played were role play games, once again something very Ne. Keep in mind that I was already in my 4th year of high school by then.

    I am confident that my cognitive functions changed during this big change in my life. I'm not a behaviorist lol and I'm not making behaviorist claims. My father also experienced similar changes. As a child, he was a P and his Te was fairly weak. It was not until he had big rewards with hard work through work that he developed his Te. He can't put it into words but anyone who knows my father would know that he's always doing something. He has that Te checklist mentality and I am sure that it is one of his strongest functions. He now identifies as an INTJ. I think you guys are mistaking me for a guy who thinks you can change types once every week given your hobbies, lifestyle etc. I'm not. I believe that your type is dictated by your cognitive functions and that the order of your functions are not in constant flux. However, that does not mean that they can't change and given big changes in your life, big changes in your mentality will happen.
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  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai
    However, that does not mean that they can't change and given big changes in your life, big changes in your mentality will happen.
    i agree with you, though i wonder if often we think that we used to be some type and simply didn't recognize that it was reasonable function use for our current type.

    i experienced the same perception that i was Fi dom when i was younger, but, after all, Fi is Judging, internal, and, for me, the "supportive parent", which means it will be fairly visible. on the other hand, sometimes it can be easy to overlook your dom if it's a Perceiving function because it's more like an "ocean" that you swim in. i never realized the ridiculous extent to which i was N (though it always was my strongest letter in testing) until i learned what Ne was and what you see with it. Fi seems more prominent through my childhood, however, because i wrestled with it more. Ne was just... well, like swimming. it was simple and natural. i thought everyone thought like that.

    so while i can understand someone who had amnesia or a mental breakdown of sorts having the possibility of restructuring (though i still doubt they'd move far from their type), i would venture to guess that for most people who think they've changed types, especially since childhood, it could be useful to look more closely at function order and see if perhaps one of the functions was most visible for whatever reason, and later moved to the background.

    as far as the connection between neurology and type... well, personally i've gotta leave that to the neurologists i would love to see it studied, though.

  9. #29
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    If you felt generically NP as a child, it is possible that you were an undeveloped ENTP and are now a reserved ENTP rather than INTP, or simply that your Ti developed past your Ne.
    Huh? If my Ti is higher than my Ne it makes me an INTP. The biggest difference between us is our Ti/Ne preference. You said you may have been INXP as a child, which is not very close to ESTJ. It's probably more likely that you're type will change to one with the same functions in a different order, but I still reckon it's possible.
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  10. #30
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    There's no reason an ISFJ would prefer a settled, progressive life to begin with -- Si does not mean robotic. If an Si user is raised in a very chaotic environment, they will be scattered and chaotic themselves. A better analogy would be that an ISFJ would feel like the voice of experience has failed them, and start paying more attention to their present environment, which might lead to becoming either ESFP, or ESTP.
    Well you know what I mean. I wasn't saying they're robotic, I guess I used bad terminology. But your example works.
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