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  1. #11
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    My mother was an ESFJ, and just a sample of her many complaints of me when I was growing up:

    - You're too assertive, you can't accept that men are in-charge
    - You're too messy
    - You're heartless
    - You don't appreciate traditional practices (funerals, marriage, etc)
    - You never care about housework
    - I want grandchildren!!!1!!one
    - You don't believe in religion
    - You're too critical and you think too much
    - You're not chatty with people and you aren't warm-hearted enough!
    - You need to settle down and stop "playing the field"!
    - Why don't you like kittens, puppies and tiny fluffball dogs? ALL women love them! You're the ONLY ONE who doesn't.
    - You're EVIL for not liking poetry, flowers and romance films.
    that's rough if it's not hyperbole, although kind of hypocritical of her calling you critical... I hope it's not like this on a broad scale with mothers and daughters. Depending on the mother of course, since not all are SFJs, and if they are SFJs, not all of them are that intolerant of differences, if much or any at all. My mom is also ESFJ, and when she's critical of my older sister (ESFP), it's mainly along the lines of her making stupid mistakes and not being responsible.

  2. #12
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    You know, even though I was a sensitive kid in a lot of ways, I don't recall being too bothered by this sort of criticism. Aside from frustration that adults could be so ridiculous. Even as a grade-schooler, I thought most of the items on that list were silly things to criticize someone for.

  3. #13
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Yes.



    Much to my mating game's dismay.

    I'm a Huge N with a ridiculous P.

    Eh, it could be worse, I guess, at least I'm an E and an F, both of these functions make me appeal to the opposite sex, I guess. I dunno.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #14
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    But my point is, males have a lot more freedom: have fun, get down and dirty, do whatever you want, you can be assertive, you're allowed to be messy.

    Agree?
    Males take alot more freedom. It is there for women, too; in far too many cases, they are just too reticent to take it.

  5. #15
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    I think women are mainly expected to be ISFJ (obedient and helpful) or ISFP (quiet, easy to get along with, but fun) ...otherwise we might be too loud, opinionated, argumentative, intelligent, et al...

  6. #16
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    I hate living in an SJ world. I really hate it. Every time I hear about all these stupid, stupid outdated rules of society that you are supposed to comply to or be outcast, it just makes me want to punch whoever has mentioned it. Here's an example of a conversation (paraphrased) between me and my ISFJ mum (and one that actually shows one of the less stupid traditions).

    MUM: We've got to clean up the house.
    ME: Why? It'll be dirty in 2 days.
    MUM: We have people coming over. Just do a quick clean.
    ME: It's (insert irrelevant person who we see all the time). They know our house is messy.
    MUM: Well some of us have some level of self respect. I don't want them to know we live in a pigsty.
    ME: But it doesn't MATTER what the external appearance of something is AND they've seen that we have a messy house already!
    MUM: It's just a matter of dignity. It's a personal thing, to know that my house is clean makes me feel good, like I'm not a slob.
    ME: But it's NOT USUALLY CLEAN! You know that, so what are you proving to yourself or anyone?
    MUM: (Pointless jibberish) Now come on and help.
    ME: Why do I have to help. I think the whole thing is pointless, I didn't put anything here and it doesn't matter to me.
    MUM: You're part of the family, it's your duty to help out.
    (endless loop)
    JiNe
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    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

  7. #17
    Senior Member StrawMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Males take alot more freedom. It is there for women, too;
    Yeah, you gotta fight for your right to party!

    It has to be said though, that the things mentioned in the OP are more easily accepted traits and behaviours for men.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Yeah I do, but only a little bit. Note that a lot of things in the original list are more F in nature than SJ.
    Not really. I've bolded the ones that actually could strictly qualify as being F.

    - You're too assertive, you can't accept that men are in-charge
    - You're too messy
    - You're heartless
    - You don't appreciate traditional practices (funerals, marriage, etc)
    - You never care about housework
    - I want grandchildren!!!1!!one
    - You don't believe in religion
    - You're too critical and you think too much
    - You're not chatty with people and you aren't warm-hearted enough!
    - You need to settle down and stop "playing the field"!
    - Why don't you like kittens, puppies and tiny fluffball dogs? ALL women love them! You're the ONLY ONE who doesn't.
    - You're EVIL for not liking poetry, flowers and romance films.

    That's 3 1/2 "F" statements vs. 8 1/2 statements which really have nothing to do with being a Feeler.

    Actually, we might even be able to pull out the kittens and puppies one too. It's debatable; it does appear that most Feelers - even child hating Feelers - love animals, but it might be just as subjective as not wanting to have children. Plenty of NF women consciously elect to either postpone having children or have none at all.

  9. #19
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    Well on the big 5 personality trait tests women score higher than men on conscientiousness, which I think is associated with judger traits in MBTI(especially SJs), women also score higher than men on agreeableness(I associate agreeableness with being informative/people focused interaction style, but it is associated with feeling in MBTI). I think xSFJ traits are typically associated with femininity and xSTP with masculinity in western culture.
    I score pretty low on conscientiousness and moderate on agreeableness....I always get RLUEI.

    I've seen agreeableness/egocentric explained as agreeable, on one extreme, being concerned with other people most/first (Fe doormat stereotype?); and egocentric, on the other end, is being concerned with your own individuality and freedom (Fi self-absorption stereotype?). Really, either could be an FP woman, depending on how her Fi plays out.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #20
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    I read an article once said that it's better to be enfp male than enfp female in work environment because having enfp qualities in men are more appreciative than having that in women. The article also mentioned that enfp men in general do better in term of career advancement than women. I'm sure it's not like this in every cases but I can see how that play out so I think there's some truth to it.

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