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  1. #11
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    My Fi traits:
    I value friendship a lot You're a normal human being.
    I have often strong opinions (though usually based more on what makes sense and the world as a whole rather than my personal experience)INTPs don't have strong opinions?
    I like to be emotionally supportive of those I am close to when it does not strongly contradict with my logic
    Fe can also do this.


    Everything I've read from you and your posts so far indicates INTP, to me.



  2. #12
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I think my Fi is bound by logic. Usually my values start with idealistic Fi premises, and then I use Ti to make them logically coherent with everything I do.

  3. #13
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    If something is important to me then I'm passionate about it.

    Isn't this logic?
    important(X) -> passionate(X)
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    Kay guys, sorry if I've been going on too long, but I'm still kind of confused about the possibility that I am INFP. And my confusion is this. In type descriptions, functions and such, I keep reading that Ti is analytical and searces for logic and truth, while Fi is subjective and searches for meaning and creates values. But what if you have strong levels of both? I analyse, criticise, find holes in ideas and create logical deductions from information, but from what I see, when I take it apart, I see things, possibly somewhat subjectively, though they seem mostly logically, that are pointless, that cause problems and such, usually attitudes, movements or behaviour, and I form values against these things (and for things that seem to create overall positive effects). I prefer to be impresonal and act on logic, and my values SEEM mostly impersonal and can change somewhat overtime if evidence against them is produced. But this is supposedly an area INTPs have very little interest in. So can logic and value systems run alongside each other? Can an INTP have strong convictions and and and/or an INFP base their values on logical reasoning? These 2 functions are supposed to be direct opposites, but I am somewhat in the dark (due to lack of information) about why they must be.

    My Fi traits:
    I value friendship a lot
    I have often strong opinions (though usually based more on what makes sense and the world as a whole rather than my personal experience)
    I like to be emotionally supportive of those I am close to when it does not strongly contradict with my logic

    My Ti traits:
    I prefer being impersonal and analytical observation, and am often analytically inquisitive
    I treat most situations from an objective standpoint to be criticised and sometimes worked on, including myself
    I am not usually quick to draw conclusions based on how I feel
    I am often considered insensitive or pedantic due to a need for truth and correctness and to not allow someones emotions to rule them if it will lead to a worse situation.

    I am really very confused about my type and the differences between Ti and Fi, as unlike the S and N functions and Te, Fe, there doesn't seem to be ENTIRELY opposing sides. Unless of course I am wrong and have gotten deeply confused and made awful misinterpretations somewhere.
    Been throuigh this mill myself.
    The biggest part of the problem is that Fi descriptions have been way oversimplified and overgeneralized.

    Everyone has "subjective opinions" and values.
    It is also a general Ji trait.
    Valuing friendship also ties to the Interaction Style (NP="informative"=people focused).

    So you sound like a definite INTP to me.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  5. #15
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    Kay guys, sorry if I've been going on too long, but I'm still kind of confused about the possibility that I am INFP. And my confusion is this. In type descriptions, functions and such, I keep reading that Ti is analytical and searces for logic and truth, while Fi is subjective and searches for meaning and creates values. But what if you have strong levels of both? I analyse, criticise, find holes in ideas and create logical deductions from information, but from what I see, when I take it apart, I see things, possibly somewhat subjectively, though they seem mostly logically, that are pointless, that cause problems and such, usually attitudes, movements or behaviour, and I form values against these things (and for things that seem to create overall positive effects).
    You're INTP. Basically the entirety of Jungian functional theory is actually based on values (or more specifically, on attitudes) on which you base your thinking process and behavior. The difference between Ti and Fi is that Ti users base their outlook on life on frameworks of logical deduction (categorical imperatives, basically), whereas Fi types base their values on emotion or ethics -- what they feel in their gut is right or wrong in a given situation.

    I suggest reading the Lenore Thomson exagenesis wiki. It's mostly spot-on with regards to how the function attitudes work, except for two big complaints I have: She appears clueless as to how Fe and Te types act (outright makes Te logic look retarded, really), and she paints Fi in an altogether too wuvvy light.
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  6. #16
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I thought you were INTJ....?

    I'd say Ti is more logical than Fi.
    Fi is based on values (so, subjective), Ti is based on objective reasoning.
    Ti is not based on objective reasoning -- Te is. Ti is based on subjective reasoning.
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  7. #17
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Ti is not based on objective reasoning -- Te is. Ti is based on subjective reasoning.
    Yep. Fi is just as 'logical' as Ti. they are just different lenses through which to few problems. People use both most of the time because most analysis contains some degree of pre-supposition that is based on one's prior experiences. This is what we refer to as 'values'. Any problem that related to human beings uses Fi and Ti in this way.

    It seems that many Ti doms think that their solutions are purely logical, but they are always based on assumptions that are largely subconscious...

  8. #18
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Yep. Fi is just as 'logical' as Ti. they are just different lenses through which to few problems. People use both most of the time because most analysis contains some degree of pre-supposition that is based on one's prior experiences. This is what we refer to as 'values'. Any problem that related to human beings uses Fi and Ti in this way.

    It seems that many Ti doms think that their solutions are purely logical, but they are always based on assumptions that are largely subconscious...
    I'm not sure I agree. Ti is actually defined by arriving at internal values and axioms through exploring the logical implications of them, rather than internal assumptions. Basically, Fi works from the inside out (it makes a supposition about how the world works or should work and goes from there), whereas Ti works from the outside in (by analyzing the world it arrives to a conclusion about how it works or should work). Ti types do tend to have some ethical suppositions, but those are generally Fe-driven -- based on what society, or the Ti user's peers at minimum, consider important.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I thought you were INTJ....?

    I'd say Ti is more logical than Fi.
    Fi is based on values (so, subjective), Ti is based on objective reasoning.
    I would say that within me Ti is based off of objective perception, but is actually subjective reasoning

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not sure I agree. Ti is actually defined by arriving at internal values and axioms through exploring the logical implications of them, rather than internal assumptions. Basically, Fi works from the inside out (it makes a supposition about how the world works or should work and goes from there), whereas Ti works from the outside in (by analyzing the world it arrives to a conclusion about how it works or should work). Ti types do tend to have some ethical suppositions, but those are generally Fe-driven -- based on what society, or the Ti user's peers at minimum, consider important.
    So what does i stand for in regards to "Fi is inside-outside and Ti is outside-inside"? How does internal fit in? Does that mean Te and Fe is neither inside nor outside or do they flip? Fe is outside-inside and Te is inside-outside? Being a Ti dominant I need to understand how your system works logically

    To me using your words - Ti is how the world works, Fi is how the world feels. Te is how the world should work, Fe is how the world should feel.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #20
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not sure I agree. Ti is actually defined by arriving at internal values and axioms through exploring the logical implications of them, rather than internal assumptions. Basically, Fi works from the inside out (it makes a supposition about how the world works or should work and goes from there), whereas Ti works from the outside in (by analyzing the world it arrives to a conclusion about how it works or should work). Ti types do tend to have some ethical suppositions, but those are generally Fe-driven -- based on what society, or the Ti user's peers at minimum, consider important.
    Give me an example.

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