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PMFS 16-Type

iqibi

New member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
4
MBTI Type
InTP
I'm sorry if this isn't the place to ask but i'm quite desperate, a favorite MBTI board of mine has just completely disappeared and i'm trying to find where it has gone. The url used to be jfmb.ipbfree.com a couple ppl there were Estella and the banned (on this forum and most others) Jack Flak, if anyone could help me find it, i would be extremely extremely grateful. I think many people disagreed with his ideas. If you would like to discuss them, i'd be glad to offer what i can, though my reading on MBTI is somewhat limited. I don't have a full list of the theory but simplified it went something like this:


INTP:
Primary Intuition
Secondary Thinking
Introverted

ENTP:
Primary Intuition
Secondary Thinking
Extraverted

INFP:
Primary Intuition
Secondary Feeling
Introverted

ENFP:
Primary Intuition
Secondary Feeling
Extraverted

INTJ:
Primary Thinking
Secondary Intuition
Introverted

ENTJ:
Primary Thinking
Secondary Intuition
Extraverted

INFJ:
Primary Feeling
Secondary Intuition
Introverted

ENFJ:
Primary Feeling
Secondary Intution
Extraverted



For S's it's all similar, just switch N with S.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

Consulting Detective
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
1,450
MBTI Type
JiNe
Enneagram
5W4
I think the most logical way to do it is with functions. Introverts mainfunction is introverted (Ni, Si, Ti, Fi) and their secondary is extraverted (Ne, Se, Fe, Te) and for extraverts, it's the other way around. Ni, Ne, Se and Si are perceiving functions, which are primary in extraverted Ps and secondary in introveted Ps (and primary in introverted Js and secondary in extraverted Js. Whichever section is not filled (primary and secondary) will be a judging function (Te, Ti, Fe, Fi) and these functions correlate to your N/S and F/T. The primary function will be I or E depending on your I and E preference.

For example, as an INTP, my primary function is Ti, because I am an introvert, so my primary function must be introverted, and as an introverted perciever, my primary function is a judging one. I am a T so it becomes Ti. My secondary function must be an extraverted function that is the opposite type to the first, ie perceiving. Since I am an N, this is Ne.

After the first two, there is debate as to what the order of functions is.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
*grumbles* sure... sensors don't deserve to have their shit spelled out like the intuitives do :dry:
 

iqibi

New member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
4
MBTI Type
InTP
*grumbles* sure... sensors don't deserve to have their shit spelled out like the intuitives do :dry:

haha, sorry, was short on time, boss was about to walk past me at any moment lol.


I think the most logical way to do it is with functions. Introverts mainfunction is introverted (Ni, Si, Ti, Fi) and their secondary is extraverted (Ne, Se, Fe, Te) and for extraverts, it's the other way around. Ni, Ne, Se and Si are perceiving functions, which are primary in extraverted Ps and secondary in introveted Ps (and primary in introverted Js and secondary in extraverted Js. Whichever section is not filled (primary and secondary) will be a judging function (Te, Ti, Fe, Fi) and these functions correlate to your N/S and F/T. The primary function will be I or E depending on your I and E preference.

For example, as an INTP, my primary function is Ti, because I am an introvert, so my primary function must be introverted, and as an introverted perciever, my primary function is a judging one. I am a T so it becomes Ti. My secondary function must be an extraverted function that is the opposite type to the first, ie perceiving. Since I am an N, this is Ne.

After the first two, there is debate as to what the order of functions is.


Jack's system kinda simplifies all of this. There are no introverted/extraverted functions... it's simply N, S, T, and F. INTP is simply Primary-N and Secondary-T. Introversion/Extraversion is independent of them. So an ENTP is very similar to an INTP, except for the fact that he's extraverted. Unlike traditionally, where ENTP is Primary-Ne and INTP is Primary-Ti
 

Chloe

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
i like Jack Flak's task theory.

maybe it's time to post it here;

In my various travels in the real world and beyond, I have noticed that different individuals of one type sometimes seem to possess demeanors which contrast in predictable ways. The first two types I recall noticing this in were ENTP and ISTJ.

ENTPs who are socially integrated in the way they happen to desire, and who are respected for their creativity in that context, tend to be more expressive, and seem happier. I call them ENTP-alpha. ENTPs who, by my assessment, desire to be in this situation but are mis-matched with the social environment they find themselves in, tend to be less expressive overall, and seem quite often displeased. I call them ENTP-beta. Many ENTPs are neither obviously alpha nor beta, sort of a "medium ENTP," and I call them neither alpha nor beta.

ISTJs who are trusted to perform well in an occupation, do so, and are respected for it, tend to possess an air of satisfaction and confidence. I call them ISTJ-alpha. ISTJs whose capabilities either fail to meet an arbitrary standard of excellence, or whose capabilites are not matched with a proper job of work, such as if they're unemployed, tend to possess an air of bewilderment at "what's gone wrong." I call them ISTJ-beta. In contrast with ENTPs, the alpha and beta of ISTJs seems to be quite polar, almost binary. Further observation, of course, is required.

With the terms I use, alpha and beta, I refer to nothing but the greek letters; It is simply a convenient method of categorization, and not intentionally related to the concept of "alpha males," or the like. (Though an alpha under my defintion is probably more likely to be such an "alpha male," truth be told.) Of imperative note is that I believe these qualities are the result of subject-object interplay. That is, often entirely changeable from without. Perhaps ironically, at present it seems likely that very intelligent ENTPs are more likely to be beta than alpha, so I hope it's especially clear that I don't consider the term "beta" derogatory.

Theoretically, I think this concept may be useful for every type, according to each type's motivations and means of satisfaction. I plan to continue analysis down this avenue, which I suspect will be most helpful in the pursuit of understanding behavior...And indeed, helpful at discovering the means to increase individuals' general satisfaction with life.

+This theory occured to me as the common base for all types, during contemplation of the alpha/beta paradigm: A Universal Theory of Social Satisfaction


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I conceptualize these "traits," they are not innate, but functions of the relation between oneself and one's environment. So I claim that if the environment is changed from one which is likely to induce an "alpha state" to one which is likely to induce a "beta state," or vice versa, said state will eventually change in the individual.

Such qualities are likely oft mis-categorized as "innate" personality traits in the social sciences, because environment tends to stay stable. Consider the case of the ENTP-beta. Often ridiculously intelligent, and one could argue too intelligent to be perfectly satisfied (socially) on Earth today. But if they were cryogenically preserved for 500 years, they may find themselves in an alpha-inducive environment.


In sum, by my best assessment and with some help from at least Tangerine and Keirsey...

Social functions/means of social satisfaction, with specific focus on actual activities of individuals (As opposed to end-results):

INTP: Creation/provision of very unique logical ideas
ENTP: Creation/provision of logical ideas which are likely to be employed
INFP: Embodiment of moral "nobility"
ENFP: Advisement on meaning and purpose

ISTP: Intensive real-world problem solving
ESTP: Extensive real-world problem solving
ISFP: Creation/provision of art of any variety
ESFP: Bringing of joy

INTJ: Task supremacy based on present group desires
ENTJ: Command with respect to achievement of goals
ISTJ: Reliable task completion based on present group desires
ESTJ: Rule construction and implementation

INFJ: Intensive distress alleviation, direct and indirect
ENFJ: Extensive distress alleviation, direct and indirect
ISFJ: Resource management/provision, both concrete and abstract
ESFJ: Embodiment and active transfer of cultural norms

...And the (more tentative) effects of each type's activities:

INTP: Availability of alternative solutions
ENTP: Indirect advancement of efficiency in general
INFP: Group cohesion, stability, and extension
ENFP: Group cohesion, stability, and extension

ISTP: Direct advancement of group success
ESTP: Direct advancement of group success
ISFP: Group cohesion, stability, and extension
ESFP: Group cohesion, stability, and extension

INTJ: Increase of group efficiency
ENTJ: Indirect advancement of group success
ISTJ: Increase of group efficiency
ESTJ: Group cohesion, stability, and efficiency

INFJ: Group cohesion, primarily, also stability and extension
ENFJ: Group cohesion, primarily, also stability and extension
ISFJ: Group stability, primarily, also cohesion and extension
ESFJ: Group stability, primarily, also cohesion and extension
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
not to be blunt, but I always thought that system was oversimplified... there's a major difference in how my ISTJ and I use our Sensing and Thinking functions, despite the fact that we're both STs :)
 

Chloe

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
not to be blunt, but I always thought that system was oversimplified... there's a major difference in how my ISTJ and I use our Sensing and Thinking functions, despite the fact that we're both STs :)

not that i agree with JF function order, but he is acknowledging that difference: you are S dom, ISTJ is S aux. so that's the difference in using S, according to him. ;)
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
yeah... his descriptions were ALL off for me... that and he had a weird idea that I was an NF all of the time :shock:
 

iqibi

New member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
4
MBTI Type
InTP
not to be blunt, but I always thought that system was oversimplified... there's a major difference in how my ISTJ and I use our Sensing and Thinking functions, despite the fact that we're both STs :)



I understand what you mean, i was quite confused by that at first.

A key thing to note, is that Jack's "N"/"S" are wholistic ("P") functions, whereas "T"/"F" are linear ("J"). Just think of Ne/Se/Te/Fe, they are fairly close to what he means by N/S/T/F.

So, when you are ESTP, you are quite different from an STJ since your primary is a wholistic S (similar to "Se") whereas their primary is a linear T (similar to "Te").
 
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