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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    Ok, so ENTPs are usually accused of being somewhat superficial and haphazard in their speculations and opinions. I can understand that.

    But what I can't understand is why these charges are only rarely leveled at our ENFP siblings. I know quite a few ENFPs IRL and almost all of them have this tendency to splatter inconsistant and superficial points about them yet, in the case of ENFP, people are more like "oh they're just being silly" or even from an MBTI textbook I once read: "When ENFPs try to verbalize their insights the result often comes out cluttered and imprecise".

    So basically, isn't this the same behavior from ENFPs as you've seen from ENTPs only with a different motive? Why then, should there be another discourse for dealing with ENFPs?
    Most superficial: ESTP and ESFJ.
    But perhaps that's a projection :P

    ANYWAYS

    ExFP's are not superficial They may be flaky, but they are really warm and personal and fun, on ly thing is they can be caught up in the newest ' hip ' thing wich makes em look superficial
    But theyre not
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  2. #72
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    Depends.

    Extreme ENPs often appear random and inconsistent.

    When they are more balanced, I think ENFPs have better use of their shadow ISTJ. That means, they can accumulate great amounts of information with great precision - and then apply the ENFP Ne to produce something creative of it. Their worst errors are usually in final conclusions and summaries (the Fi comes along to bring idealism and utopia). However, they can be the most accurate and factual in their presentations, using the ISTJ-mode.

    With ENTP - they are great on the creative side, but during the accumulation of information they just misinterpret or remember some things wrong (using ISFJ). Therefore, they cannot even realize how wrong are some of their statements during presentations. But on the long run their true and practical ENTP creativity pays off and they produce a lot of useful results (among some failures).

    I would claim ENPs are the most creative of all types, in general, but also the worst to present their own ideas to the status quo. The best way for them is to just implement their theories and prove them in practice. It is difficult for them to provide conceptual proofs (nasty INTPs never trust it due to lack of intuition).
    They are definately prone to errors, and the extreme peer judgement may destroy them (if they get bashed for too many fails). Still, there's usually valuable insight even in their errors.

  3. #73
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    If person X assumes that person Y is superficial and shallow based on the fact that they don't talk about deep and meaningful stuff out loud or to them, IMO that tells us a lot about person X's arrogance and prejudice and that person Y doesn't feel like he's got anything to prove and doesn't ramble on about his own thoughts and opinions, particularly not to arrogant, prejudiced people.
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  4. #74
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    Blackwater, I'm interested to hear more of your opinion about ENFPs and hopefully you may be able to help me clear up somethings for me?

    I'm 24 and lived with my ENTP father and ISFP mother until a few years ago and it's been an extremely rocky road. Even after explaining MBTI to my dad he still insists that I am selfish and uncaring of other people which i do not believe to be true. Our conversations are very heavy too. So basically my question is... Do you believe ENTPs really think of ENFPs as selfish (perhaps it is just my father's opinion). And if so, why, and how can they be less selfish. (It's difficult to answer that myself because I AM an ENFP). I'm open minded so any other opinions, please feel free to comment

    Thankyou

  5. #75
    Senior Member gigi_xo's Avatar
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    How are ENTPs superficial?

    I know a few. This is hardly the case.

    and as for me being superficial? Perhaps to the extent that I am extremely concerned about my own image & appearing pretty & successful. But underneath, there's nothing shallow.

    so what is this all stemming from?
    I live my life for the stars that shine & people say its just a waste of time- Oasis

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  6. #76
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenore85 View Post
    Blackwater, I'm interested to hear more of your opinion about ENFPs and hopefully you may be able to help me clear up somethings for me?

    I'm 24 and lived with my ENTP father and ISFP mother until a few years ago and it's been an extremely rocky road. Even after explaining MBTI to my dad he still insists that I am selfish and uncaring of other people which i do not believe to be true. Our conversations are very heavy too. So basically my question is... Do you believe ENTPs really think of ENFPs as selfish (perhaps it is just my father's opinion). And if so, why, and how can they be less selfish. (It's difficult to answer that myself because I AM an ENFP). I'm open minded so any other opinions, please feel free to comment

    Thankyou

    He may be referring to diffs in your behavior based upon Fi/Fe. How you care for people will be very different on the surface. Both can be very loving, but an Fe user (such as an ENTP user) and Fi user (such as an ENFP) will often use very different ways to show emotion. A very common claim from Fe users-espcially ENTPs-is that ENFPs appear selfish and self centered on the surface due to how we use Fi.

    There is some truth in this claim, however there is also some perceptional differences and diffs in expectations as well.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigi_xo View Post
    How are ENTPs superficial?

    I know a few. This is hardly the case.

    and as for me being superficial? Perhaps to the extent that I am extremely concerned about my own image & appearing pretty & successful. But underneath, there's nothing shallow.

    so what is this all stemming from?
    If that profile pic is actually you I can say you've been quite successful.

  8. #78
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenore85 View Post
    Blackwater, I'm interested to hear more of your opinion about ENFPs and hopefully you may be able to help me clear up somethings for me?

    I'm 24 and lived with my ENTP father and ISFP mother until a few years ago and it's been an extremely rocky road. Even after explaining MBTI to my dad he still insists that I am selfish and uncaring of other people which i do not believe to be true. Our conversations are very heavy too. So basically my question is... Do you believe ENTPs really think of ENFPs as selfish (perhaps it is just my father's opinion). And if so, why, and how can they be less selfish. (It's difficult to answer that myself because I AM an ENFP). I'm open minded so any other opinions, please feel free to comment

    Thankyou
    Don't fret - it's probably just a big misunderstanding. Until I really learned about ENFPs, I kind of felt the same way. I have used this example before, but I'll say it again:

    If something really tragic happened to me and I mentioned it to my ENFP friend, I'd usually get a long drawn out emo dump about how she just couldn't sleep because she was up *all* night worrying about me, and that she feels SO bad for me and this is just killing her inside. She would go on and on about how my situation is affecting her. I guess she would do that to show solidarity with me or something.

    But I would hear this as "This happened to you, Jeno, but look how affected *I* am over this incident - pay attention to meeeeee and make me feel better. My Fi is so strong that I feel your pain, probably even more than you do. Comfort me!!!!"

    We used to have a lot of discussions over her "selfishness". She's learned to cut down on the dramatics and start offering up real solutions. And I've learned to ignore 50% of what she says and just confide in her less.

  9. #79
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Don't fret - it's probably just a big misunderstanding. Until I really learned about ENFPs, I kind of felt the same way. I have used this example before, but I'll say it again:

    If something really tragic happened to me and I mentioned it to my ENFP friend, I'd usually get a long drawn out emo dump about how she just couldn't sleep because she was up *all* night worrying about me, and that she feels SO bad for me and this is just killing her inside. She would go on and on about how my situation is affecting her. I guess she would do that to show solidarity with me or something.

    But I would hear this as "This happened to you, Jeno, but look how affected *I* am over this incident - pay attention to meeeeee and make me feel better. My Fi is so strong that I feel your pain, probably even more than you do. Comfort me!!!!"

    We used to have a lot of discussions over her "selfishness". She's learned to cut down on the dramatics and start offering up real solutions. And I've learned to ignore 50% of what she says and just confide in her less.
    +1

    explained very well.
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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Don't fret - it's probably just a big misunderstanding. Until I really learned about ENFPs, I kind of felt the same way. I have used this example before, but I'll say it again:

    If something really tragic happened to me and I mentioned it to my ENFP friend, I'd usually get a long drawn out emo dump about how she just couldn't sleep because she was up *all* night worrying about me, and that she feels SO bad for me and this is just killing her inside. She would go on and on about how my situation is affecting her. I guess she would do that to show solidarity with me or something.
    This sounds pretty terrible. How could she expect that to not be perceived as a guilt trip!?

    If it really is about you rather than her, she should make it sound like it's about you rather than her. It sounds like the main point she's trying to make with her language, either consciously or not, is that she can't sleep (and oh by the way, yeah your situation had something to do with it too I guess).

    Or maybe that's how you're perceiving it and relaying it. Dunno. All I know is that, as you've said it here, it does sound fishy and selfish of her.

    With friends like that, I suppose I'd end up telling them about my problem after I've solved it. That way, they don't have to worry about me, and I get to talk.

    That defeats half the purpose of talking to them anyway, but maybe it's better than not sharing anything with them..

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