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  1. #1
    Senior Member marm's Avatar
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    Default Originators of MBTI and Temperaments

    Temperaments theory was developed by an INTP.
    MBTI was developed by an INFP.
    Temperament and MBTI are signigicantly different.
    I haven't read Kiersey's books, but I've heard that he focuses more on traits and behaviors.
    Whereas, MBTI is about cognitive processes.

    How do you think the types of the respective originators influenced the two systems?

  2. #2
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    Temperaments theory was developed by an INTP.
    MBTI was developed by an INFP.
    Temperament and MBTI are signigicantly different.
    I haven't read Kiersey's books, but I've heard that he focuses more on traits and behaviors.
    Whereas, MBTI is about cognitive processes.

    How do you think the types of the respective originators influenced the two systems?
    I thought that Isabel Myers was an INFJ. Where do you get that she was an INFP?

    Anyway, it would seem to me that Keirsey's approach was more generalized and archetypal, while MBTI's approach was more systematic and lent itself to being metricized in various ways.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I thought that Isabel Myers was an INFJ. Where do you get that she was an INFP?
    I think she said she was.

    Here is one reference (PgDn once to find the ref).

    Her mom was an INFJ, supposedly.

    And here are some thrilling bonus links for motivated readers:
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    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
    Senior Member marm's Avatar
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    I've seen Myers listed as an INFP in various INFP descriptions such as Type Tango. I assume its correct because I've seen it listed that way in more than one place. Where have you seen her type as being INFJ?

  5. #5
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    Temperaments theory was developed by an INTP.
    MBTI was developed by an INFP.
    Temperament and MBTI are signigicantly different.
    I haven't read Kiersey's books, but I've heard that he focuses more on traits and behaviors.
    Whereas, MBTI is about cognitive processes.

    How do you think the types of the respective originators influenced the two systems?
    Temperaments were around long before Keirsey. They go back as far as Plato and Aristotle. Meyers and Socionics merely expounded on Jung's work.

  6. #6
    Senior Member marm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Temperaments were around long before Keirsey. They go back as far as Plato and Aristotle. Meyers and Socionics merely expounded on Jung's work.
    Yes, I understand this. However, I believe it was Gianninni who said that Kiersey had altered the original Temperaments a great deal. And Myers definitely systematized Jung's ideas in a manner he didn't wish to do and in a manner quite different than what the originator of Socionics did with it. Kiersey and Myers made each of these systems very much their own. A different type might have done something quite differently. Also, there is the question of why they were attracted to these systems in the first place.

    I realize it may not have anything to do with type at all. I was just curious to hear what others thought.

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    ...I realize it may not have anything to do with type at all. I was just curious to hear what others thought.
    I don't remember whether Isabelle covered any of this is her book.

    It seems clear that Keirsey did a lot of theoretical work with his system, typical for INTP, in the development of it. It seems mostly theory driven.

    On the other hand, Myers took a lot of surveys to create and support her ideas, reminiscent of when INFP uses Te effectively. (I've seen other INFPs in tech fields and they do actually enjoy an organized process that gives validity to their work in a way that INTPs do not usually care about.)

    In religious circles there are "spiritual gifts" tests. Those are also impacted by the people who developed them: Instead of observing people and coming up with gifts, they started out by going through the Bible and listing anything Paul mentioned as a gift, then asking questions to place people into those categories. So in this case again, the test developers found a process and outcome that worked for them, that Myers or Keirsey would not have found acceptable themselves.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    Yes, I understand this. However, I believe it was Gianninni who said that Kiersey had altered the original Temperaments a great deal. And Myers definitely systematized Jung's ideas in a manner he didn't wish to do and in a manner quite different than what the originator of Socionics did with it. Kiersey and Myers made each of these systems very much their own. A different type might have done something quite differently. Also, there is the question of why they were attracted to these systems in the first place.

    I realize it may not have anything to do with type at all. I was just curious to hear what others thought.
    Keirsey did not alter the temperaments, he simply gave them new names and made a comparison to Meyers' work instead of keeping his types independent of MBTI. They do not correlate exactly to MBTI anymore than the enneagram types.

    I don't think that Meyers systemized Jung's work, but simply devised an assessment to determine Jung's prototypes. We could have done okay without having the J/P dichotomy because in the end I prefer Ti-Se by Jung's standards, no matter if I am reading MBTI or Socionics.

    If anyone systemized the work, I think that was Lenore Thomson and John Beebe. Since then, Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi have been able to make it more applicable and easier to determine your best fit type, in my opinion, far more than Meyers-Briggs work. They are all great contributors.

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    ... If anyone systemized the work, I think that was Lenore Thomson and John Beebe. Since then, Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi have been able to make it more applicable and easier to determine your best fit type, in my opinion, far more than Meyers-Briggs work. They are all great contributors.
    As an aside, what did you think of Duniho's DDLI test, which includes additional validation of function sets (i.e., two functions that work in tandem)?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    Temperaments theory was developed by an INTP.
    You think Plato was an INTP?

    I'm cool with that.

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