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  1. #51
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    And see, I think that's because he was so mystical and perceived a huge interior world to explore. But then, isn't he really thinking about abstraction...? Since it's inside, apart from the world of concrete objects. That's what really started confusing me.
    That's understandable. Jung's system is pretty much the ultimate in mystical NF psychobabble (Jung himself was probably INFP). Takes a somewhat abstract mind to understand what he was talking about.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    Give me an example of thinking about your thoughts. I'm not even sure what you're talking about.
    How does one give an example? Basically I am aware of my thoughts, how I think, the ways I think, the methods in which I think, and how I am thinking them. I am AWARE of my thought processes, how they work, and the specifice thoughts that I am thinking. I'm not sure how to give an example? You think about your thoughts by being aware of them first...

    Am I totally missing something?
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  3. #53
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Concrete method: I'm analyzing something (say, time-travel paradoxes). I memorize and make note of what my stream of consciousness is like, and I start dissecting exactly what traits are shown in my thinking. Freewriting is a good way to do that.
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  4. #54
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    How does one give an example? Basically I am aware of my thoughts, how I think, the ways I think, the methods in which I think, and how I am thinking them. I am AWARE of my thought processes, how they work, and the specifice thoughts that I am thinking. I'm not sure how to give an example? You think about your thoughts by being aware of them first...

    Am I totally missing something?
    I guess it works for you, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Concrete method: I'm analyzing something (say, time-travel paradoxes). I memorize and make note of what my stream of consciousness is like, and I start dissecting exactly what traits are shown in my thinking. Freewriting is a good way to do that.
    Well true, but then you're thinking about thoughts that you had a few moments ago, which in order to truly reflect requires a different state of mind. (Which doesn't mean that you're not thinking about your thoughts, of course.) Putting it down on paper makes it observable action, so it becomes more or less speech.

    The only reason Keirsey talks about speech instead of thinking is that 'thinking' can't be nailed down, not until someone says something. And the only problem with thinking about your own thoughts is that it's a subjective process. You're thinking about yourself on your own terms, and there's no objective input being given because no one else can just "see" your thoughts until you speak them.

    You can easily mislead yourself, thus why everyone gets confused about their own type.
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  5. #55
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    I caught myself doing the NF class/genre/type thing in a meeting today. We had a list of like 250 apps, some of which can be replaced by a new technology, some of which can't, we just don't know which yet because there is not 1 single person that knows all the apps and that understands the new technology.

    It was suggested that we just go through them one at a time and decide if they can be replaced or not.

    I kept saying we should just go through them one at a time and put them into a general bucket of what kind of pattern they fit, then we can take all the patterns and decide which ones fit into the new tech and which ones don't. Once we know that, we can just throw a blanket over all the apps that fit a specific pattern and say "in" or "out" for rearchitecture/replacement.

    I think some of my coworkers thought I was from another planet.

  6. #56
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    I caught myself doing the NF class/genre/type thing in a meeting today...

    I kept saying we should just go through them one at a time and put them into a general bucket of what kind of pattern they fit, then we can take all the patterns and decide which ones fit into the new tech and which ones don't. Once we know that, we can just throw a blanket over all the apps that fit a specific pattern and say "in" or "out" for rearchitecture/replacement.

    I think some of my coworkers thought I was from another planet.
    hahaha, nice. So, were you talking about patterns of code, or kinds of apps? Is the issue with the new technology one of coding?
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  7. #57
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Agreed. I use all of them.
    I use half of one third of them but on alternating days.
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  8. #58
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    hahaha, nice. So, were you talking about patterns of code, or kinds of apps? Is the issue with the new technology one of coding?
    Basically kind of apps. Here is an example... we have a lot of applications that are supported by vendors. But, sometimes we need data from Vendor App A to get into Vendor App B even though these two apps are not aware of each other. Over time, we have written a lot of applications to glue two vendor apps together by propagating data between them. It is a mess and no one knows where all the hooks are.

    So you might have:
    Vendor App A -> In-House App C -> Vendor App B

    And if Vendor App B stops getting the data it needs, the person investigating this problem may not even know that In-House App C exists, much less where to look for it or how to troubleshoot it.

    This is just one basic example. There could be 50 apps that fit the basic pattern of App C above, and there are other patterns too.

    We have purchased some data propagation and service mediation tools that could make some of these apps completely obsolete and for others it could just move the definitions of the interfaces into a common place so that if something is broken you aren't trying to pull something out of thin air to find the break. The task now is figuring out which apps can be replaced, removed, or redesigned with the new tools.

  9. #59
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    That definitely sounds like a coding issue. Why can't the experts for each app get with the people who know the new technology and bang their heads together? Then you could just knock it out a few pieces at a time...
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  10. #60
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    There are no experts for each app. They were written one at a time over the years and the team responsible is mostly gone. We just have them all sitting in a repository and a few people know one or two of them but there are 250 ish total.

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