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  1. #41
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I disagree. Our thoughts exist, we are aware of them happening and what they are, and thus we can dissect them. Or extrapolate from what they result in.
    Can you give an example?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Shallow as in, they only explain basic surface behavior. They aren't precise about what lies underneath that behavior. I do think that Keirsey is very good for casual users, and as I mentioned what pisses me off is the perceived overlap between it an MBTI (I have the same problem with Socionics), but to me as a type enthusiast, it's just... boring (at least taken by itself). So yeah, I'm an Inventor. Now what?
    Now you can figure out careers and schooling that might interest you, the types of lovers you'd get along with best, why you have certain issues that always pop up in relationships, and why everyone should leave you alone about certain attributes of yours, and why you should leave them alone about theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    So it's pretty much the same problem I have with the Big 5: It's too simple, too superficial. I could tell you someone's SLOAN type within a minute of meeting them if I ask the right questions, and I'm actually a bit surprised anyone actually needs to take the test.
    Well I don't know about the Big 5, but it's not ALWAYS that easy to figure out someone's KTT type. Although, the fact that it's as easy as it is, is what makes it so beautiful. You don't have to deliberate forever on it, and suddenly the world opens up to you in a new way.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    We can't think about our thoughts? I can. I actually think understanding cognitive processes is more beneficial than knowing one's type.

    I don't understand the concept of being unable to think about our thoughts. Also science is now backing up more theory behind cognitive processes...
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  3. #43
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    The cognitive processes can very much make scientific sense, so long as they're defined properly. Personally I think the accepted cognitive function orders are false dichotomies though -- the only true dichotomies in Jung's cognitive system are introversion/extroversion, which define mutually conflicting attitudes for a given function (precision versus applicability, broad vs deep).
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  4. #44
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    It sounds like you are vastly uninformed about KTT, which is okay because at first I was, too.
    He was introduced through William Sheldon sometime after WW2, and then Isabel Myer's research in 1956. It was afterwards that his own research led him to tie it in to Greek temperment theory. That's his main contribution and distinction. Not the invention of the types themselves.

    Also, don't be so hasty to start off a post calling someone "vastly uninformed". Weak. I ignored the rest of your post. All I did was simply suggest looking into MBTI, and you start off with that?

  5. #45
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    I don't understand the concept of being unable to think about our thoughts
    I have some trouble with it. Not that I can't think about them, but I have trouble with doing it in a way that tells me anything or is useful. Everything gets all meta. I start trying to analyze the thoughts that actually think about other thoughts. I'm like "ok, when i was thinking about my thoughts i was thinking like this ____" and before long I don't really know how I think. Right now I'm thinking about what it is like to think about thinking about my thoughts. Before long, I don't know how I think about anything.

    It's thoughts all the way down.

  6. #46
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    We can't think about our thoughts? I can. I actually think understanding cognitive processes is more beneficial than knowing one's type.

    I don't understand the concept of being unable to think about our thoughts.
    Give me an example of thinking about your thoughts. I'm not even sure what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    Also science is now backing up more theory behind cognitive processes...
    Really? I'd like to see something on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    The cognitive processes can very much make scientific sense, so long as they're defined properly. Personally I think the accepted cognitive function orders are false dichotomies though -- the only true dichotomies in Jung's cognitive system are introversion/extroversion, which define mutually conflicting attitudes for a given function (precision versus applicability, broad vs deep).
    And see, I think that's because he was so mystical and perceived a huge interior world to explore. But then, isn't he really thinking about abstraction...? Since it's inside, apart from the world of concrete objects. That's what really started confusing me.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    He was introduced through William Sheldon sometime after WW2, and then Isabel Myer's research in 1956. It was afterwards that his own research led him to tie it in to Greek temperment theory. That's his main contribution and distinction. Not the invention of the types themselves.
    Well, well!

    I know there's an author he read during WWII, but I guess it's not Sheldon. I was trying to search for it on the Keirsey forum since I read something about it there but can't find it. Anywho, yeah I was thinking he got into Greek and 20th century temperament theory after Myers, but that doesn't really matter, because it still doesn't mean he got into cognitive theories. I've never read anything about that and I talk to his son all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Also, don't be so hasty to start off a post calling someone "vastly uninformed". Weak. I ignored the rest of your post. All I did was simply suggest looking into MBTI, and you start off with that?
    Well, you said he based his theories off of cognitive psychology. From all appearances he based his thinking on her descriptions of behavior. I guess it's possible that you think that MBTI is fully cognitive. Or if you mean that because Myers based her work on Jung, that Keirsey theory ultimately relies on cognitive theories, you could've said that.

    But apparently we were both wrong about each other's ignorance. You still think I don't know much about MBTI because apparently you were too offended to read further down.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Nah man, I wasn't calling you ignorant at all. In your own words, you appeared to be ambivalent to the definition of "Ti". Fair enough. I just suggested looking more into MBTI to expand on Keirsey. It adds more to understanding than subtracting anything. At least in my opinion.

    Yeah, I was offended. I'm over it. I just didn't like your wording. I'll read your post over again.

  8. #48
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Nah man, I wasn't calling you ignorant at all. In your own words, you appeared to be ambivalent to the definition of "Ti". Fair enough. I just suggested looking more into MBTI to expand on Keirsey. It adds more to understanding than subtracting anything. At least in my opinion.
    Well I didn't mean that you called me "ignorant" but that wasn't my intent either. I was just saying that I didn't think you knew what you were talking about, not that you're stupid or uneducated. Sorry for the strong wording.

    The reason I say that I don't know about "Ti" is because it just stopped making sense after awhile. I don't really see much sense in it - even if I grasp it for a few seconds, it escapes my mind after I start thinking about something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Yeah, I was offended. I'm over it. I just didn't like your wording. I'll read your post over again.
    Aiight man, cool. By the way I found that post I was talking about. The book Dr. Keirsey read during WWII that got him into psychology was Man the Unknown by Alexis Carrel. He's forgotten all about what it said now, but it was just a tipping point for him. You can read the book here.
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  9. #49
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    Time to hug it out now, guys.

  10. #50
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Errr.. <quick hug>

    Ahem..

    I can see why all of the function definitions (and/or combinations) can be confusing. This is where I think Keirsey helps for me.. as an anchor to keep me from overanalyzing and retyping myself out of "temperment". It's helpful for me to look back into MBTI from that standpoint though.

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