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  1. #1
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Default Pe, Je (vs) P dom, J dom

    so according to socionics, MBTI IxxP and IxxJ should generally have their final letter switched - denoted in socionics as Ixxp and Ixxj.

    this is because of the way type code is established:

    Ne dom, Fi aux
    dominant extraverted -> E
    Ne and Fi -> NF
    perceiving extraverted -> P
    ENFP

    Fi dom, Ne aux
    dominant introverted -> I
    Fi and Ne -> NF
    perceiving extraverted -> P
    INFP

    Ni aux, Fe dom
    dominant is introverted -> I
    Ni and Fe -> NF
    judging extraverted -> J
    INFJ

    and all of this is reasonable enough, because the final letter is actually based on whether your perceiving or judging is extraverted.

    judgers typically exert their will on the environment more, which manifests in the form of being more externally organized, having better time management, seeking external closure, and are long-term planners; perceivers typically exert their will within their own heads more, manifesting in the form of being more externally adaptable, open to change, tolerant, and desiring myriad experiences.


    but socionics (generally) switches the two final letters, usually identifying an MBTI INFP as INFj and an MBTI INFJ an INFp, because that system assigns the final letter based on which function is dominant.

    it's then reasonable to assume, as socionics does (yet unfortunately i have not been able to read much more due to the language barrier) that there are some notable similarities within these two groups:

    perceiving dominant:

    • extravert with extraverted perceiving (ESFP, ENFP, ESTP, ENTP)
    • introvert with extraverted judging (ISFJ, INFJ, ISTJ, INTJ)


    judging dominant:

    • extravert with extraverted judging (ESFJ, ENFJ, ESTJ, ENTJ)
    • introvert with extraverted perceiving (ISFP, INFP, ISTP, INTP)


    how do the similarities within the groups then manifest, and how is that different from Pe and Je?

  2. #2
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    .... how is that different from Pe and Je?
    The differance between Pe and Je is purpusefullness (if thats a word). Pe is an experimental, explorative mindset that is willing to do thing and go places just to see how it turns out. Je is an urge to attended to the needs or opportunities of the world. A Je type will tend to act with quite a clear idea of what they are doing, why they are doiing and what they want the end result to be.

    THis is why Pe is linked to Ji in a healthy person. Given that there wasn't a well defined goal to what they often do, it can't be assessed to determine how the experience met that goal. Instead in needs a mindset that analysis it to see if anything worthwhile was found - which is what Ji is about. Taking the time to determine to decide upon the worth of something.

    After a Je driven experience, it should be reviewed to see if it met expectations/requirements and if not, why not? That's the drive of Pi, to take the time to determine why things work out the way they do.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  3. #3
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The differance between Pe and Je is purpusefullness (if thats a word). Pe is an experimental, explorative mindset that is willing to do thing and go places just to see how it turns out. Je is an urge to attended to the needs or opportunities of the world. A Je type will tend to act with quite a clear idea of what they are doing, why they are doiing and what they want the end result to be.

    THis is why Pe is linked to Ji in a healthy person. Given that there wasn't a well defined goal to what they often do, it can't be assessed to determine how the experience met that goal. Instead in needs a mindset that analysis it to see if anything worthwhile was found - which is what Ji is about. Taking the time to determine to decide upon the worth of something.

    After a Je driven experience, it should be reviewed to see if it met expectations/requirements and if not, why not? That's the drive of Pi, to take the time to determine why things work out the way they do.
    ahhh that makes a lot of sense. cool, thanks. so...

    we get an INFP who is primarily focused on finding Fi meaning but who uses Ne to filter information, whereas we get an INFJ who is primarily focused on gathering Ni information but does so with Fe goals in mind...

    and in some ways the INFJ actually ends up being more like ENFP (my P dom grouping) because we are both focused primarily on gathering N information but our intents for that information are very different - namely that ENFP doesn't really have a specific intent in mind whereas INFJ does. and then INFP ends up being more like ENFJ in the way that they are both focused primarily on F usage of information, but the ENFJ has external goals in mind, while the INFP is figuring things out as they go. and both INFP and ENFJ can be very decisive about things!

    and so that all makes sense when we look at P dom vs J dom in terms of Ps are more adaptable and better at improvising whereas Js are much more natural planners and better at following through.

  4. #4
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is that EII in Socionics is Fi-Ne-Ti-Se. Like it's half INFP, half INFJ.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Fi-Ne-Ti-Se
    I wouldn't worry about these last two too much. The first two functions form the ego, and the functions after that serve different roles and are not necessarily ranked as they are in MBTI.

  6. #6
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    and so that all makes sense when we look at P dom vs J dom in terms of Ps are more adaptable and better at improvising whereas Js are much more natural planners and better at following through.
    Often, yes, but it's worth remembering that this is because EJ spend more time planning ahead and so learn to be good at it, rather than the talent being a intrinsic benefit of being an EJ. Similarly, EPs are good at improvising because they do it more frequently, rather than it being granted to them as a perk of being in the EP club.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  7. #7
    Glycerine
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    You know it's an EJ when they ALWAYS seem to be on a mission even for like going to the bathroom. EJs tend to be incredibly deliberate in almost everything they are going to do or say. For me, I always have a purpose for what I do even for something as simple as "I am going to call X because I haven't talked to her for awhile" and do it. This is probably why some ENFJs come off as manipulative when they aren't trying to be. My dad and I have a purposeful walk (EJs) while my INFP mother has a very leisurely walk. LOL

  8. #8
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    You know it's an EJ when they ALWAYS seem to be on a mission even for like going to the bathroom. EJs tend to be incredibly deliberate in almost everything they are going to do or say. For me, I always have a purpose for what I do even for something as simple as "I am going to call X because I haven't talked to her for awhile" and do it. This is probably why some ENFJs come off as manipulative when they aren't trying to be.
    I actually can't really comprehend NOT having a purpose/reason for doing everything! haha.
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