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  1. #61
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm that way too but I just don't understand such rigid thinking and readiness to dictate what's "right" and what's "wrong" on a moral basis from an enfp.

    To not be open to the idea that maybe it's not all bad intentions all the time, that's the opposite of flexibility. . ..
    Yes, agree, I think people do it (esp Fi's) out of fear, over protecting their beliefs so they go to extremes. Clinging to them. Also, it's more common among younger people.

  2. #62
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Pan View Post
    Yes, agree, I think people do it (esp Fi's) out of fear, over protecting their beliefs so they go to extremes. Clinging to them. Also, it's more common among younger people.
    Well.....

    It could also be a product of maturity--i.e. developing Fi, clearer values, etc.

    I'll have to read previous posts in the thread to see exactly what you guys are talking about.
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  3. #63
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post

    I cannot believe three fellow ENFPs just said that manipulation is not always bad.
    Well, I'm probably gonna risk my ENFP cred, but I tend to think manipulation is bad.

    It depends how strictly you're defining manipulation though.

    There are many subtle levels of manipulation and it's possible that some are OK, such as "playful" manipulation or something, but, in general, I don't think it's a good thing.

    I have realized how manipulative I can be, and I'm kind of working on being more straightforward.

    Just my own personal goal, not a rule for others.


    But I'm glad an INFJ is here to remind us that it is and to point out the right way to go.
    Heh heh.

    This reminds me of something I read somewhere---that INFJs are the only ones who can talk an ENFP out of their "life of crime."
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Well.....

    It could also be a product of maturity--i.e. developing Fi, clearer values, etc.

    I'll have to read previous posts in the thread to see exactly what you guys are talking about.
    I was talking more in general, not in this case with sytpg which i didnt read all to be sure.

    and was talking about black and white thinking... when it's obvious...

    it'd hard to put a line even what's black and white thinking, so i stay away from going into all that.. because, what Vamp said, Sytpg was saying how he wouldnt kiss anyone who he doesnt love or something like that... I can say it's black and white thinking but again that's from my POV, which is not absolute

    in other words: thinking something is black and white thinking can be black and white thinking per se.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Goosebump's Avatar
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    I find this whole topic quite troubling. As I always thought manipulation is a form of deceit used to take advantage of people.

    I would like to know what you guys consider as an acceptable form of manipulation because this is quite puzzling to me.
    In the practice of tolerance, one's enemy is the best teacher.

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  6. #66
    Senior Member StrawMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    I manipulated Craft's Ti a while back and planted the seed for this thread.
    I thought that inception is hard to do, and you have to go to at least 3rd level?

  7. #67
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Just read the Ti thread and watch manipulation at work.

  8. #68
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Just read the Ti thread and watch manipulation at work.
    Come on, Metaphor.

    As soon as I saw your name in this thread, I knew you had posted something like this.

    It's not manipulation.

    The guy really has grown on me, and I want to bury the hatchet.
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  9. #69
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Come on, Metaphor.

    As soon as I saw your name in this thread, I knew you had posted something like this.

    It's not manipulation.

    The guy really has grown on me, and I want to bury the hatchet.
    Okay, I believe you.

    So you understand, I have a real thing about people being picked on. This is my burden to bear.

  10. #70
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawMan View Post
    I thought that inception is hard to do, and you have to go to at least 3rd level?
    Yes, AND, a vm running inside a vm running inside a vm is.... Really slow.

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