The Hipster

[Thalassa]

Ok...basically hipsters are people, for some incredible and inconceivable reason, who prefer terrible American beer with their indie-counter culture. I could never be a hipster because I Newcastle.

At any rate, my speculation is that they are actually mostly SP and SJ, not NT or NF, because there's this whole trendy-fuck vibe to it that is quite rigid, it seems more like something people aspire to "fit in" to rather than any genuine form of self-expression. The only reason I approve is because it usually involves Eurocentric affectations like riding bicycles instead of owning a car and voting liberal.

Otherwise, it's kind of annoying.

 

[ZPowers]

It might not be unfair to say that what was emo culture in the mid-2000s has evolved into hipster culture (mainly, for example, not being part of the most mainstream or traditionally popular groups, and in many ways opposed to the ideas and values of those groups and most people in general, and indeed disliked in return my most people), and they have a very easily identified sense of style, but they are not that similar in other ways.

While colored by a vitriol against many of the most mainstream aspects of popular culture (actually an area I agree with them, since popular TV and music has a tendency to be awful these days). The irony usually refers to them wearing shirts or the like referencing something that was once, but is no longer popular (or, for example, a DARE shirt, which was a popular anti- drug program in American schools). They tend to smoke and do at least some recreational drinking and drugs and are usually around 20. They don't dwell on sad or depressing things like emos, but instead are often obsessed with earning and maintaining a sense of smug superiority, usually colored by keeping up with the very newest, most obscure music or most unknown clubs. For some hipsters, it feels like this pursuit of the unknown is more important than the music itself, which is sometimes itself pretty bad, but embraced just because it is A) obscure or B) popular within the hipster community (that old anti-conformity conformity thing). Hipsters tend to be somewhat unforgiving of people less informed of stuff like that than they themselves are. They wear unusual combinations of impractical clothes, often flashy or even intentionally gawdy accessories or prominent but non-prescription glasses. To some degree their music elitism tends to bleed over to movies, but not nearly as much. Sometimes they'll watch reality shows or the like described as dumb in that ironic way, but it seems like a waste of time (or, with bad movies, money) to me. Sometimes I wonder if it's just a way of publicly embracing guilty pleasures. They are pretty unfailingly very liberal (they really embraced Obama, and pretty early on, something else I share with them), but most of them don't really know much about politics.

It seems to me there are both genuine hipsters and people who just want to be in the sort of cool new thing, more in love with the idea of being a hipster or emulating and even surpassing their hipster friends than care at all about the ideas hipsterdom really represents.

And I agree with Marm. MOST hipsters are probably SP or SJ.

 

[Thalassa]

What's interesting is that I think it goes back even further than emo to 90's "alternative." I've unknowingly owned a pair of Buddy Holly hipster glasses for going on six or seven years now which have apparently become quite mainstream just in the past year or two. It reminds me a little bit of how the grunge culture looked when I was in high school, except with this more materialistic vibe on top of it.

My ESFJ ex is one of these irritating people (I know the newest, the hippest, the trendiest ...blah blah blah...just sent me an email to some documentary that three of his "closest friends" are in who are people who know more about "the underground" than blah blah blah ) and ISFJ JTG1984 strikes me as a bit hipster, though he makes fun of his hipster friends and acquaintences.

 

[ZPowers]

Of course, it goes back decades in one form or another, with a few changes regarding influence or message, but essentially young people sort of rebelling and dressing provocatively and being part of some sub-group. Emo, Grunge, even 80s Punk or the 70s incarnation of the sort of hippie movement (which, by that time, gave bigger picture ideas like political activism more lip service than action, as groups like this do now).

I have a few hipster traits myself, most of us probably do, as well as a few hipster friends who I like hanging out with (in moderation).

 

[Ginkgo]

I need a better definition of "hipsters." I honestly am having a large amount of trouble with categorizing these people in my mind... They are like... a nebulous, vacuous conglomerate of antiquated fashion and various popular mainstream icons...

They are like... A variant of emos?

That's exactly what they're about. The nutmeat of hipsterdom doesn't want to be defined, similarly to how many postmodernists don't enjoy the postmodern movement being defined.

@ZPowers: Just because you're liberal or anti-authoritarian doesn't mean you're a hipster, as you know. Judging from what I've seen of you on the forum, you have a penchant for being well edified. On the flip side, hipsters aim to place an ironic cushion between themselves and information (at least that defines the heart of the movement).

It's likely that most hipsters don't really understand the philosophy behind their subculture. They may just try to identify with it to be trendy or socially accepted.

 

[Thalassa]

I probably have a few hipster traits just because I'm liberal, still have the heightened irony carried over from my teen years, and haven't owned a car since 1999. I think I've been able to get along with some of them because they see me as subversive or weird enough to hang out with them (or even be my exes gf, which according to him, is a high honor) ...the main difference between me and them though, is that I will gleefully sit and listen to Russian children's songs and watch movies or read books which genuinely interest me, even if those things are not "cool" or are years and years old, while The Hipster ALWAYS ALWAYS is feeling smug and vaguely superior to me because they supply me with "the lastest" music, and know what was going on with fashion or technology before me, and I could genuinely give a crap, unless it directly benefits me in some way and I like it.

This pretentious smugness and condecension was actually the source of many petty arguments with my ex, and also JTG likes to hold over my head in some of our conversations.

It's also why I originally thought they were both SFP.

 

[Lady_X]

Ok...basically hipsters are people, for some incredible and inconceivable reason, who prefer terrible American beer with their indie-counter culture. I could never be a hipster because I Newcastle.

At any rate, my speculation is that they are actually mostly SP and SJ, not NT or NF, because there's this whole trendy-fuck vibe to it that is quite rigid, it seems more like something people aspire to "fit in" to rather than any genuine form of self-expression. The only reason I approve is because it usually involves Eurocentric affectations like riding bicycles instead of owning a car and voting liberal.

Otherwise, it's kind of annoying.

why is that the definition? okay i'm looking this shit up...i think i might be annoyed more by the people who put everyone in lil labeled boxes...i don't like the term emo or goth either. i think they all suck and it's just not a part of my world...i might think some things are funny or cool that some people in some group do but that in no way makes it appropriate to label me with one of those stupid titles.

and hipsters liking bad american beer doesn't even makes sense..i thought they were supposedly pretentious...maybe i'm misunderstanding...okay looking it up.

edit:
okay...this is what urban dictionary says
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hipster&defid=2705928

seems like normal people to me. :/

 

[IZthe411]

Too many definitions, too many examples. I just don't see Je types into this kind of stuff.

 

[ZPowers]

@ZPowers: Just because you're liberal or anti-authoritarian doesn't mean you're a hipster, as you know. Judging from what I've seen of you on the forum, you have a penchant for being well edified. On the flip side, hipsters aim to place an ironic cushion between themselves and information (at least that defines the heart of the movement)

I appreciate that and concur (re: hipsters, not my own capabilities). I said something in an earlier post about how they seem generally poorly or only moderately informed politically (usually), though they are overhwelmingly liberal. That doesn't speak to the quality of any political ideology, almost of which have well-informed and poorly-informed followers.

And NJs, no, but SJ? The rules, manners and means for this little subculture are very well-defined. I could see an SJ getting pretty wrapped up in them.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

alright... so i live in a small college town with quite a bar scene and a lot of hippy culture. so... the hipster culture is pretty prominent here as well, and many of my friends are hipsters as well.

i don't think the hipster culture is singled out to one type, honestly. however, each type might have different motivations for being part of the hipster culture.

amongst the hipsters i know in real life and that are friends of mine, they range from INTP, ENFP, ISFP, ESFP, ESFJ, ENTP...

i think the movement started with the emo kids going to college and shopping at urban outfitters, mixed in with the going green movement and smoking weed. idk.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

I'm confused as hell.

 

[Epiphany]

This would be an opportune moment to introduce Hipster Hitler.

 

[Bamboo]

the hipster 'culture' is popular here in the mid-atlantic region of the east coast. like most things cultural, evidence of it can be found in NYC in my travels there (along with just about everything else) and in new england. it has some exposure in the southern states from what i've heard.

it's mostly a fashion thing, from what i can tell. i suppose it has some common themes, but most of the 'hipsters' who i have met are just really interested in fashion and staying with the current trends. which bores the crap out of me, but it didn't stop me from going to a "hipster themed" birthday party dressed in something ever so vaguely tight jeaned and flanneled and enjoying myself.

 

[Beorn]

 

[ZPowers]

If true, Hipster Kitty may want to consider renaming himself Hipster Cat.

 

[Thalassa]

why is that the definition? okay i'm looking this shit up...i think i might be annoyed more by the people who put everyone in lil labeled boxes...i don't like the term emo or goth either. i think they all suck and it's just not a part of my world...i might think some things are funny or cool that some people in some group do but that in no way makes it appropriate to label me with one of those stupid titles.

and hipsters liking bad american beer doesn't even makes sense..i thought they were supposedly pretentious...maybe i'm misunderstanding...okay looking it up.

edit:
okay...this is what urban dictionary says
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hipster&defid=2705928

seems like normal people to me. :/

They are. They are pretentious but have a bizarre yen for Pabst Blue Ribbon in their most stereotypical form.

If you aren't going out of your way to make other people feel inferior for being as up-to-date on some "cool shit" as you are, you're probably not a hipster.

 

[KDude]

Usually when someone acts like they're taste is cooler than mine, I just cut to the chase, get my guitar, and ask if they want to jam. It's OK to have particular tastes and shit, but if you're going to be elitist or a snob, then be a snob about something you can do yourself. I love meeting people who can introduce me to new stuff, but I've never understood those who cross the line even further and act "arrogant" about other people's work.

 

[Snuggletron]

you just wouldn't understand.

*snarf*!

 

[Tallulah]

 

[the state i am in]

definitely a fashion kind of demographic. whatever williamsburg is currently disseminating. there's a musical canon. know your post-punk and potentially key new wave + no wave bands. be part of the "creative community" (using this pejoratively) in your local area (ie the incestuous network of blah blah blah blah). unlike jeff goldblum, don't forget your fucking mantra! also: hyperbole!

good impulses: be original (just not too/unfashionably original). follow your heart (when your heart is feeling like getting fresh). be interested in the arts and, if you live in a smarter, more densely urban + academic area, your continental philosophy (think post-structuralism). be open to alternative lifestyles and have at least a few friends who are if not switch hitters, at least gay. challenge the status quo!

the relationship with visual rhetoric and iconography is refreshing. most of my nt friends unfortunately are a little too high in the awesomeness scale to do the hipster thing. adult swim is not hipster (neither are viral videos of olsen twins movies on acid). i do know a lot of sps, not that there's anything wrong with that. buffalo exchange IS open to the public.

also, no sjs. they listen to eve 6 and staind. (trying to hold it together). poor bastards! their stylists don't even have tattoos! i have an elephant cuz i'm a young republican. why don't you just go ride your jet skis at your cabin, guy.

also, my avatar and the record it stands for is hipster gospel. sunday morning services from 40s and bluntz kid hangovers. we all sing along. especially to the slow sad trumpet laments! a funeral for our youth--wait arcade fire already did that and we buried the sovereign body! goodnight!