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  1. #51
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I have lived in Copenhagen for 6 months and a half. From October to early March, streets are almost empty at night.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I have lived in Copenhagen for 6 months and a half. From October to early March, streets are almost empty at night.
    I'm not sure by which yardstick you're measuring this phenomenon. Perhaps it is a yardstick based on countries where jobless people wander the city streets throughout the night because they have nothing else to do; Athens, as you mentioned, being an excellent example. I don't think everybody needs to be out on the streets at 2AM on a wednesday in order for a society to qualify as "E".

  3. #53
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    I'm not sure by which yardstick you're measuring this phenomenon. Perhaps it is a yardstick based on countries where jobless people wander the city streets throughout the night because they have nothing else to do; Athens, as you mentioned, being an excellent example.
    I fairly doubt people drinking (expensive) cocktails at night, on the promenade just next to the Acropolis, are jobless Not to mention young people going to bars just to have a drink with their friends, without getting wasted

    By the way, I've also visited Munich (one of the richest cities of Europe, extremely low unemployment) for a relatively large amount of time, and that city had quite a vibrant nightlife, too - even during the winter months. So, if you like to delude yourself into thinking that those who go out at night are "slackers"...you're welcome
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Hmm... I'm not sure how it would turn out if we had statistics about drinking an extroversion. Sure, the extroverts will be found in bars more often, but would they need to drink that much? If you're an extrovert, it should be enough to hang around with drinking people and you could pretty much be as extroverted as you like. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who drink at home mostly.
    It's not so much that they needed to drink to be outgoing and act extroverted the way an introvert might. Rather, drinking made it acceptable for them to behave that way because everyone came out of their shells more when they drank. It's an excuse to let their repressed, more outgoing natures, out of the box. At least, that's the what I got from his story. Simply hanging out with drinking people wouldn't afford the same leeway if you're still sober. As such, it quickly becomes a regular occurrence.
    The task of thinking is to live with doubt in the service of understanding, rather than living with certainty in the preservation of ignorance.

  5. #55
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    People who are out in the middle of the night in the middle of the week are typically slackers. As for the notion that the streets of Copenhagen are empty in the evening on weekdays and weekend nights, that's just absurd. It's pointless to keep discussing personal anecdotes anyway.

    As for the correlation between alcohol consumption and northernness in Europe, you've guessed it: total bullshit.

  6. #56
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    People who are out in the middle of the night in the middle of the week are typically slackers. As for the notion that the streets of Cope0aagen are empty in the evening on weekdays and weekend nights, that's just absurd. It's pointless to keep discussing personal anecdotes anyway.

    As for the correlation between alcohol consumption and northernness in Europe, you've guessed it: total bullshit.
    Lol @ your prejudices. I know a shitload of people that go out almost every night and are very accomplished. I hope one day you'll be able to experience something similar, too. Goodbye.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Lol @ your prejudices. I know a shitload of people that go out almost every night and are very accomplished. I hope one day you'll be able to experience something similar, too. Goodbye.
    Congratulations on your anecdotes. Next time, please bring facts and logic.

  8. #58
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    Congratulations on your anecdotes. Next time, please bring facts and logic.
    Facts and logic when discussing if people go out at night? Please. Get out of your room / study and try to live
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weber View Post
    Flexibility, flamboyance and frivolousness, in other words a lack of frigidity, have been core values in Danish society for many years, coming forth especially as a distancing from Germany and as a result of the '68 movement going berserk.
    i need to move to denmark.

    Quote Originally Posted by minus View Post
    It's not so much that they needed to drink to be outgoing and act extroverted the way an introvert might. Rather, drinking made it acceptable for them to behave that way because everyone came out of their shells more when they drank. It's an excuse to let their repressed, more outgoing natures, out of the box.
    agree with this. it's an excuse to get around the social value of being reserved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weber
    Yes, there's a magic correlation between northernness and inhibition that has no exceptions. Oh wait, it must be the cold. Now it's scientifically proven.
    actually... haha...

    it does seem like a general pattern though. certainly it has exceptions, but overall, it seems to work out. swedish society (i have not yet traveled within denmark) is more outgoing than finnish, definitely, but i can't say it holds a candle to spanish. there's still more of a cultural emphasis on reserve. the swedes i've known can throw excellent parties but they are not likely to throw themselves all over you like a lot of spanish people i've known. it's not a necessary law and it doesn't fit everyone, but it is an interesting occurrence, in particular because it is mirrored on the east coast of the the states. the further south you go, in general, the more overtly sociable people are.

    and actually, when i lived in finland we discussed this exact phenomenon in a cultural sociology class i took - the theory was really that colder places in general are less conducive to small talk (makes sense, who really wants to stand around and chat about nothing in particular when it's -30 out?), and areas that were more isolated for longer periods of time (in the general development of europe) tend to be more introverted. less people around, less cultural values centered around sociability.

    or alternatively, in america, northern society industrialized first and there was much more competition, as well as being of mostly protestant descent - germans in the midatlantic, english, french, dutch higher up = whose society emphasized restraint, while the south had a later influx of irish catholics (though so did northern urban areas, of course) and many african americans - and the culture itself was slower-paced and less individually competitive (cooperation for agriculture plantations) - so valuing more sociability makes sense in a lot of ways.

    but like you alluded to, these are just theories, of course, and there are plenty of exceptions.

    what i'm really curious about is how much of introversion/extraversion - MBTI I/E, not just sociability - is genetic. but that's rather tricky.

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