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Thread: Intensity

  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Poki wrote something about this long, long ago, how IXTJ will act to restrict what counts as available objective judgment according to feeling and will maintain the claim of objectivity, apparently being blind to the influence of feeling. Which makes sense if thinking is the more dominant perspective and feeling is relatively unconscious. Thinking being more conscious is relatively more flexible while feeling being less conscious tends more to the provision of points of fixity.

    So I wonder what more conscious, more flexibly accessible feeling is like. And I wonder where the synthesis of feeling judgment takes place. (And if I say "synthesis" I wonder whether or not I'm speaking only really of introverted feeling.)

    I had an idea recently that public INTJ feeling has a more black and white quality not because it is more black and white but just because only the starker, more intense "decisions" make it to the surface. Or perhaps just because it gets filtered through thinking.
    Need to know what you mean by "feeling". Dom Si or Ni subjective perception will have a huge impact on the outlook of an IxTJ, who is making those "objective" judgements. The dominant Si and Ni are like feeling in a a way. Fi is tertiary. Are you saying that tertiary is what gives the intensity? I'm just not sure i'm buying it yet.

    Really, emotions seem like a different set of variables that can be meshed through somebody's type.

    Does anybody really make objective judgements? I actually don't think it is very common.

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  2. #12
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    If I knew what I was talking about when I said "feeling", I'd probably already know the answers to these questions.

    I recognise "feeling" as affect and as judgment. Sometimes I'll get a strong, immediate reaction to something and I'll recognise it as feeling. Negative feeling is usually easier to recognise, but being content or pleased is also recognisable. This I count as affective feeling. Feeling judgment, it seems to me, is more mysterious. I know I mix, um, something in with perception when considering what to do. Part of it is significance drawn from prior events, and normally I'd call that (one part of) Ni, but it fairly obviously isn't pure. "Significance" will be a connected thing, a web of meanings, and that'll be the Ni stuff, but some of those meanings will be, I assume, emo significance.

    I am unclear, however, how such significance is generated. I would normally say it includes objective elements drawn from thinking, but while it's true that thinking will have been involved, one needs also to consider that the thinking process is more conscious than the feeling process so I'll naturally tag more or less everything as "thinking", or at least subject to and properly judged by thinking.

    Actually, since I'm using "objective" to mean "accords with or conforms to the outside world", having particularly ones own introverted feelings be adequately thought about is problematic. They're not (directly) in the outside world to be thought about. Possibly ones own Fe/Ti combo has a similar constructive difficulty: the feelings are in some sense "out there" while the thinking is supposed to address inner material.

    (So, as a tangent: Morgan, it was interesting you used "expression" and "impression" as the two choices, although it may not be telling of anything in particular, but "impression" suggests feelings come from "out there"... maybe?)

    Anyway... adequate feeling judgment...from whence does it arrive?
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  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If they can laugh at our rigor... etc.
    I feel a lot of love right now. ITJs are beautiful.. I won't laugh.

    Everyone's beautiful, man.

    Kindly ignore this post

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  5. #15
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I feel a lot of love right now. ITJs are beautiful.. I won't laugh.

    Everyone's beautiful, man.
    Well see, it's interesting because of duality. A TJ will insist on arriving at conclusions that order the world, and will often speak like that, certainly the ITJs will. And this seems, through the magic of duality, to speak to, or create a requirement on, an FP sense of right and wrong, that something be concluded. And should an FP ever find it reasonable to actually make some statement of morality, the TJ will hear it as a worldly organizational principle.

    Or something like that.

    So, it would seem, either Fi is meant to both feel and conclude or Te is imposing some constraint on the lovely feely feelers who should just be allowed to feel. So as a cognitive function, Fi is something more than affect. BUT WHAT, GODDAMIT! And how?

    The poking fun part at the feelers has to do with the oft used adjective "intensity" and a suggestion that feeling feelings intensely is only half the story. The rest of the story is how the hell F is a judgment function.

    And I suppose another question is, which part of F is more important, the feeling or the feeling judgment?



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    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Well see, it's interesting because of duality. A TJ will insist on arriving at conclusions that order the world, and will often speak like that, certainly the ITJs will. And this seems, through the magic of duality, to speak to, or create a requirement on, an FP sense of right and wrong, that something be concluded. And should an FP ever find it reasonable to actually make some statement of morality, the TJ will hear it as a worldly organizational principle.

    Or something like that.

    So, it would seem, either Fi is meant to both feel and conclude or Te is imposing some constraint on the lovely feely feelers who should just be allowed to feel. So as a cognitive function, Fi is something more than affect. BUT WHAT, GODDAMIT! And how?

    The poking fun part at the feelers has to do with the oft used adjective "intensity" and a suggestion that feeling feelings intensely is only half the story. The rest of the story is how the hell F is a judgment function.

    And I suppose another question is, which part of F is more important, the feeling or the feeling judgment?



    *Wanders off the check out PerC link*
    I wouldn't say either is more important? The intensity of affect (the "feeling") leads the Fi user to discriminate what in the external world they relate to and value personally and individually (the consquent "feeling judgment"). And I suppose when Fi is dominant, the person doesn't feel much of a need to relate these judgments that govern their internal world to the external world (Te). Or at least, they could go for a long time like that, although I think at some point, whether extravert or introvert, every person has to reconcile the external and internal at some point in their lives. I think in the case of Fi, this is where the Te constraint would come in. Individual values are one thing, but at some point, there is a level of absolutes that also exists. The individual isn't the centre of the universe. There's nothing wrong with intensity, but excess and imbalance are something else.
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  7. #17
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I always get people saying, "Wow you are so intense!" WTF does that mean?

  8. #18
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I have just wondered from time to time where "intensity" got its currency. And I observed seeming things like, for example, feeling loses its intensity if you make a choice or have something appear to you that alters your judgment of the legitimacy of that feeling, and some competing feeling judgment arises.

    Also, say, if one spends most of their conscious time attending to thinking rather than feeling about something (and if one does other stuff to stabilise oneself along the way), then feeling... mellows out? Doesn't have the immediate purchase on one that it might? One has alternatives for focus and "intensity" of feeling goes by the wayside?
    I posted this recently in another thread - I believe it is directly related to this topic - at least with regards to choosing to alter perceptions or pay attention to other elements of your psychae than what immediately triggers a particular emotional response.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1301366

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach
    I had an idea recently that public INTJ feeling has a more black and white quality not because it is more black and white but just because only the starker, more intense "decisions" make it to the surface. Or perhaps just because it gets filtered through thinking.
    I think similar could be said for all IxxJ's (or all aux judgers?) - the external presentation is the 'final' decision, after mulling over things internally, thus all IxxJ's might seem pretty black and white when it comes to ideas/expressions they are sharing.

    --------

    Regarding intensity, yes, there's definitely intensity of emotional feeling/depth - the raw emotions.

    I think there's also an intensity tied more to... an attachment to a particular idea. A bias towards something - some perception, some construct, some belief. That bias and attachment towards one particular thing, rather than another thing, could lead to a different sort of intensity. More...tied to your core sense of self/ ego, rather than tied purely to raw emotion.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I have just wondered from time to time where "intensity" got its currency. And I observed seeming things like, for example, feeling loses its intensity if you make a choice or have something appear to you that alters your judgment of the legitimacy of that feeling, and some competing feeling judgment arises.
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  10. #20
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Regarding intensity, yes, there's definitely intensity of emotional feeling/depth - the raw emotions.
    Measurable intensity? This is the problem I'm having, knowing which intensifier to use for intensity: very intense, intensely intense, mildly intense, so minimally intense we might as well call it mild?

    Consumed by awareness of?

    As opposed to, say, "inspired by some other construction and not paying particular attention"?

    If it's a matter of conscious focus, then there's some sense in which... something, dunno. Something like, we're all the same underneath, just focused in different ways, and though focus is crucially important for understanding who the person is, there's still a bunch of other parts to them that are normal enough.

    Or not, I dunno. It's a bit weird trying to make all people comparable in this way. Other people are more capable at this facet or that. Thus....

    Dunno. Either eugenics or the occasional spurt of personal growth.

    I think there's also an intensity tied more to... an attachment to a particular idea. A bias towards something - some perception, some construct, some belief. That bias and attachment towards one particular thing, rather than another thing, could lead to a different sort of intensity. More...tied to your core sense of self/ ego, rather than tied purely to raw emotion.
    Is that the same idea as relative maturity of lower level functions? As in, stuff happens down below the flexible, well-adjusted top level functions and that stuff becomes fixed points in our cognition that we don't often question?

    I wonder if there's a way to say that that makes tertiary functioning (and lower) less reprehensible. Less knee-jerky and shadowy somehow.



    Ooo, heavens, I wonder if I'm not looking for legitimate rights to intensity. Having relatively immature emotional awareness suggests one might envy intensity but couldn't really, truthfully pull it off. Nuts.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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