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  1. #41
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    You know, there's a difference here with Thomson's book actually. Her descriptions of ISFPs sound like they have a lot of overlap with INFPs (in that their Fi is idealistic). The whole go-with-the-flow thing seems overstated, but I've kind of accepted it..if that's what they are. It's one reason why I decided I was not ISFP though. Sounds like some lazy hippy hedonist faking a Buddha act. How could a Fi type be so much much Se oriented than ESFP?
    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Yeah, I know.. I don't think it makes a lot of sense though. That wiki site is cool too, but I just thought it was funny to catch that description there. Texts like Thomson's would disagree that they're freeflowing.. She's one of the authors that gives them the credit of making impact with their ideas and being discriminate, rather than this need to just be. Views like that strip people of any recognizable aspirations. Even by Keirsey's more limited descriptions, they would be artists/composers - and artists don't have a lack of things to say either. They have something they're not flowing with - whether personal or a larger issue. Maybe 10% of artists don't say anything worth a damn, but those are bands like.. Bananarama and Nickelback or something. And I wouldn't call Nickelback ISFP
    This wiki is from after the book, and 1) she has added to and modified some of her views since. Like the wiki also goes into Beebe's model, which was totally absent from the book. It wasn't well known enough at the time of the book for her to go into it. 2) The wiki isn't hers; it's someone's (Ben Kovitz) "exegesis" of her, so a lot of it is his own (and other contributors') "hypothesizing" (it's even admitted in places) of the meanings of her writings, sort of like a lot of the stuff I always say about comparative systems.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  2. #42
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    How easy is it for you to see your dominant function?.
    Why would I do that???

  3. #43
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    It's hard to say how I "see" Ni in action without stating how it works along with the support functions.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  4. #44
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Try doing that then.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    Yes, Learning about yourself from someone else would be weak form of learning about yourself... Non efficient.

    Fi would be a difficult function to actually try and 'look at' indeed. Recollection of trying to remember what you just experienced and identifying it to a function where you can confuse yourself because to identify the function itself would take up that particular function to judge or analyse it.
    Its the method in which its done which makes it efficient vs innefficient. There are things you will never see in yourself going about things alone. Things we blame on the outside world we remain blind to, things that our functions and who we are arent naturally inclined to allow us to experience.

    Blindness is not efficient. A closed system is only efficient within what it currently does. It is not efficient in expanding itself, but reducing itself. In other words it focuses within to what it knows.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #46
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Try doing that then.
    For instance, whenever Ni is working with Te, I think of the end result, and envision the steps necessary to achieve that goal, and it usually occurs in a stepwise fashion. Another example is whenever I look at the general trend of a graph and extrapolate what will happen later on based on the direction it is going. It's a prediction.

    Whenever I am working with literature or a piece of music, I tend to delve deeply into the hidden meanings and inner workings with the characters, symbolism, metaphors, harmony, timbre, melody, lyrics. The question that comes instantly to mind is "What's the general point the author is getting across here? What is the author's intent behind what they are describing here? This melody has a certain vibe to it that conveys a specific emotion that the composer is describing. The timbre of the song represents something in the main idea that the composer is communicating to the audience." I think the best example of my Ni in action is whenever I am writing poetry and lyrics. I think of the main idea that I want to convey, and write the main idea in a symbolic fashion, an indirect representation of the idea.

    In the instance of working with people, utilizing Fe with Ni, I gauge their behaviors and what they say, and deduce what it means. Even if someone can be saying that they are fine, I can tell that they really aren't, based on the inflection of the words, the pitch of their voice. I am especially sensitive to how something is said. The words may say one thing, but the way it is said indicates something totally different. I can pick up on non-verbal cues from people and animals.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    [Ni working with other stuff]
    I like this

    I develop got one huge, huge plan for a given problem, and I develop several broad-base contingency plans in case I'm flat-out wrong about my interpretation. I focus my efforts on the primary plan but also partially flesh out the contingency plans. You know, just in case. Extrapolating some trends too far can make one paranoid, so it's good to have backups.

    I have a mental framework that allows other ideas to be duct-taped to it, then I refine the connection between my ideas and those of others. I don't tend to fully trust my own intuition, but it's the best I've got.

    I tend toward reading too deeply into things--external phenomena, the way people act--though I know that some things are just as they are. Many people can simply be taken at their word until emotional cues tend to contradict what they say.

    I also tend toward mediating discussions amongst others rather than pushing my own ideas. I have ideas, but sharing them isn't often a priority--replying, reacting, and mediating is.


    Te and Fe are pretty freakin' simple, when you get down to their guts. And that's the way they should be.

  8. #48
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    How easy is it for you to see your dominant function?.

    Watching your own thinking. Being aware. You'd think you'd be able to spot some framework. Can you do that?
    I hope you get a kick out of this Wolfy.

    This question has been on my mind since yesterday.

    If I had to choose an image to represent how I conceptualize the framework that is "Se" and how I feel it is implemented (especially by ESXPs) it would be this one:

    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I like this

    I develop got one huge, huge plan for a given problem, and I develop several broad-base contingency plans in case I'm flat-out wrong about my interpretation. I focus my efforts on the primary plan but also partially flesh out the contingency plans. You know, just in case. Extrapolating some trends too far can make one paranoid, so it's good to have backups.

    I have a mental framework that allows other ideas to be duct-taped to it, then I refine the connection between my ideas and those of others. I don't tend to fully trust my own intuition, but it's the best I've got.

    I tend toward reading too deeply into things--external phenomena, the way people act--though I know that some things are just as they are. Many people can simply be taken at their word until emotional cues tend to contradict what they say.

    I also tend toward mediating discussions amongst others rather than pushing my own ideas. I have ideas, but sharing them isn't often a priority--replying, reacting, and mediating is.


    Te and Fe are pretty freakin' simple, when you get down to their guts. And that's the way they should be.
    What causes the duct tape to be applied to Ni? I am curious how NiTi differs from NiFi in regard to determining duct tape and what is actually duct taped. Is Ti more of a logical structure around the duct tape or duct taped area while Fi is more feeling.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I hope you get a kick out of this Wolfy.

    This question has been on my mind since yesterday.

    If I had to choose an image to represent how I conceptualize the framework that is "Se" and how I feel it is implemented (especially by ESXPs) it would be this one:

    So you picture it with a stick up your ass?
    Im out, its been fun

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