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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annnie View Post
    so you are saying it is not possible to have 'exactly' equal preference for each?
    It most certainly is possible.

    Not only can you have your first two functions equally developed, it is so common, Jung's colleague Marie-Louise von Franz resorted to typing people after she and the client felt they had figured out the INFERIOR function. It was her trademark, so to speak, typing people in that manner since it was nearly impossible to ascertain a person's Dominant function due to its likelihood of being confused with the Aux function.


    "Many people, moreover, develop two superior functions so well that is very difficult to say whether the person is a thinking-intuitive type or an intuitive type with good thinking. But does the intuitive-thinking person suffer more from banging his head on sensation facts, or from feeling problems? Here you can decide which is the first and which is the well-developed second function." (Lectures on Jung's Typology p.21.)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    of course they cant be equally strong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    It most certainly is possible.

    Not only can you have your first two functions equally developed, it is so common, Jung's colleague Marie-Louise von Franz resorted to typing people after she and the client felt they had figured out the INFERIOR function.
    I agree with Jaguar, here.

    The dom and aux function can be essentially equal in strength.

    I mean, what's the meaningful difference between one function being one scintilla more developed than another anyway?

    My E/I dichotomy is extremely close, but I do identify more with INTJ than ENTJ.

    Call me an xNTJ or INTJ, I could really give a shit.

    Don't call me an ENTJ, though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    "Many people, moreover, develop two superior functions so well that is very difficult to say whether the person is a thinking-intuitive type or an intuitive type with good thinking. But does the intuitive-thinking person suffer more from banging his head on sensation facts, or from feeling problems? Here you can decide which is the first and which is the well-developed second function." (Lectures on Jung's Typology p.21.)
    I think this method seems a little bit problematic...

    What if both the tertiary and inferior are reasonably well-developed as well?

    I would think that, with greater balance between the dominant and auxiliary functions, that you would also find greater balance between the tertiary and inferior functions, due to the fact that the dom loop and aux loop would lead to the respective development of the tert and inferior.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What if both the tertiary and inferior are reasonably well-developed as well?
    That would mean T types couldn't bash F types and N types couldn't bash S types.
    What could you possibly be thinking? We might have a peaceful forum without bigotry. Perish the thought!

    Actually, my own opinion on the matter is quite flexible. Jung and von Franz pretty much held the same opinion of the inferior function in that it was/is the 'demon child', so to speak, that gets us to spin our heads around like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. While I agree that is indeed a possibility for some people, I have never been one to take a single theory and apply it to all people across the board. There are many opinions and theories out there and if there were 100 theories, I would say pick the one that you think works best for you, not for all. The goal here is the growth of your own personal potential.

    So, do I think you can go further and confuse even more functions for your Dom? Yep. The reason Jung's types read like caricatures, rather than real people, is we are not one-sided individuals. His types are based on nothing more than a single function. If that's all we were, as humans, the pathology would be overwhelming and we would soon find ourselves in a straight-jacket. I think the possibilities for healthy function development are far more numerous than we have ever discussed in this forum. But then maybe now we can finally spark those types of discussions, ay?

    By the way, Highlander asked me in his thread if the inferior could be confused for the Dom. The answer is yes. The inferior can come off so strongly that the person themselves can actually feel it is more "real," as well as those who are observing the individual.

    Cheers, Z.

  4. #14
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think this method seems a little bit problematic...

    What if both the tertiary and inferior are reasonably well-developed as well?

    I would think that, with greater balance between the dominant and auxiliary functions, that you would also find greater balance between the tertiary and inferior functions, due to the fact that the dom loop and aux loop would lead to the respective development of the tert and inferior.
    Well it's obviously going to be harder to type someone with balanced preferences. That doesn't mean the methodology is flawed, it just means some people are harder to type than others.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That would mean T types couldn't bash F types and N types couldn't bash S types.
    What could you possibly be thinking? We might have a peaceful forum without bigotry. Perish the thought!
    Hey! Don't give up on bigotry so soon!

    One could easily still look down on Fs and Ss.

    Those functions should still be developed... just after N and T.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Actually, my own opinion on the matter is quite flexible. Jung and von Franz pretty much held the same opinion of the inferior function in that it was/is the 'demon child', so to speak, that gets us to spin our heads around like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. While I agree that is indeed a possibility for some people, I have never been one to take a single theory and apply it to all people across the board. There are many opinions and theories out there and if there were 100 theories, I would say pick the one that you think works best for you, not for all. The goal here is the growth of your own personal potential.

    So, do I think you can go further and confuse even more functions for your Dom? Yep. The reason Jung's types read like caricatures, rather than real people, is we are not one-sided individuals. His types are based on nothing more than a single function. If that's all we were, as humans, the pathology would be overwhelming and we would soon find ourselves in a straight-jacket. I think the possibilities for healthy function development are far more numerous than we have ever discussed in this forum.
    I agree with all of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    By the way, Highlander asked me in his thread if the inferior could be confused for the Dom. The answer is yes. The inferior can come off so strongly that the person themselves can actually feel it is more "real," as well as those who are observing the individual.
    Yeah, I would think the inferior could come off as strongly, but I would assume it would generally be in certain types of situations where that function ought be utilized, like in work, or socializing, etc.

    Hell, give me enough beers, and I may just seem like an Se-dom to you...



    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Cheers, Z.

  6. #16
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    "Many people, moreover, develop two superior functions so well that is very difficult to say whether the person is a thinking-intuitive type or an intuitive type with good thinking. (Lectures on Jung's Typology p.21.)
    like this quote says, its just very hard to say sometimes when the person is entp or intp..

    Quote Originally Posted by intp profile
    Here is an aspect where INTP and ENTP types differ strongly. The latter, with dominant iNtuition, are much more driven by shaping the world according to their ideas, ie. thinking supports and subordinates doing. For the INTP, doing supports and subordinates thinking.
    and like this says its either that thinking supports and subordinates doing or other way. when thinking supports and subordinate doing, doing cant support thinking and subordinate thinking, its either way around..

    satine put it out quite perfectly, its about what roles the functions play in you, not really how strong are they, strength of the function(or what strength some test gives you) can and will vary during your life, but your type doesent change because of that.

    Also do remember that i/e in mbti doesent mean same as introvert/extrovert in normal talk, in mbti(and ntp) its about if you pay attention to your surroundings or your inner world, in normal talk its basically if you are active towards your external world or not and this is completely different from mbti i/e. Also do remember that Ne happens inside of your head, even tho the intuitions come from the external world.

    My Ne is almost as strong as my Ti and i got a entp friend whos Ti is nearly as strong as his Ne. At times i act more extroverted than he does, but that doesent make me entp and him an intp. He used to think that he is an intp(when i first told him about mbti) because he doesent feel very extroverted(in a traditional sense) and he has enjoyed doing things much alone when he was a kid, but what he did was when he was a kid was build all these machines and stuff like that, doing that kind of things he was actually using his Ne even tho he felt like an introvert. He is still pretty introverted(in a traditional sense) but hes doing things like programming and those kind of things that he does alone, but that are still aimed to the external world. Also i can notice that when he was figuring out an mind puzzle i had, he went testing and trying all kinds of things with it, while figuring out how it works. When i did the puzzle, i stopped all the time and thought how it might go. Even with out very different approach to it we both worked it out about the same speed.

    People learn the basics and stop thinking that there can be some x types that are actually types instead people just not being able to tell what type are they.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #17
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    ^ But what does subordinate really mean tangibly? It might be clear in cases that are obvious anyway. But I don't feel like it's clear in my own case whether Thinking drives the ship or Intuition. Maybe they're just copilots. Sure, one might have a good day or a good year even. But even if it's 55/45, that still doesn't seem like obvious subordination.

  8. #18
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    As a very very borderline ENFJ/INFJ, I consider myself ambiverted, but like Satine, I find one function may edge out the other in day to day things. My Fe is the default. The illustrious Udog has pointed out that I have an Fe mode and an Ni mode, and I think that this speaks to my E/I blur.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    ^ But what does subordinate really mean tangibly? It might be clear in cases that are obvious anyway. But I don't feel like it's clear in my own case whether Thinking drives the ship or Intuition. Maybe they're just copilots. Sure, one might have a good day or a good year even. But even if it's 55/45, that still doesn't seem like obvious subordination.
    Exactly.

  10. #20
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    those who are close to middle usually have hard time seeing what type are they. it doesent mean that they would be a mix of entp and intp for example, they are either intp with Ne nearly as strong as Ti(or Ti nearly as low as Ne) or entp with nearly as strong Ti as their Ne is.
    What about ,INTP with stronger Ne than Ti, or ENTP with stronger Ti than Ne?
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

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