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How are you different from the typical representative of your type

KDude

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Oh, one more thing: What I crossed out isn't really so much the S parts of ESTJ, but rather what people think are the S parts of it. Si is about reliance on experience and previously-gathered data, which used to equal traditionalism in a time when information was very limited, but doesn't have to anymore. An SJ who wasn't taught a coherent system of moral values, or who has received sufficient information conflicting with those (which is quite readily available these days -- the Moral Guardians' concerns about media corrupting young minds is quite justified in the case of Si users) will probably not be very traditional.

I agree, it's not traditionalism per se.. Although there is a heavy reliance on a certain kind of steadiness/standards of normalcy, possibly the most detail oriented in it's fact checking, more comfortable with "official" information, familiar routines, authorities, etc.. It all sounds suffocating in the abstract, but I think it plays out differently in people.
 

Aleksei

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I don't even think it need be official or related to the establishment. They just need a set standard, something against which to compare or which to apply to anything new they might encounter.
 

KDude

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I don't even think it need be official or related to the establishment. They just need a set standard, something against which to compare or which to apply to anything new they might encounter.

True enough.

Speaking of which, what is your standard for MBTI? Me, as much as I like relying on authorities or official documentation, I'm lost in making it more complicated, fitting round pegs into square holes, theorizing.. All signs point to a person being N if they keep doing that :D
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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Aleksei. I believe you are an ENTP who is confusing his Ti with Si (Si likes tradition and checks that you try to follow what is normal and Ti checks internal consistency to your personal norm), Fi (very similar to Ti in many ways, especially for questions on tests), and possibly Te (you say people here often mistake it for Fi, and both are logical organisers, so maybe they're not so mistaken). I may be wrong, but you seem to fit the ENTP profile the best based solely on my experience and your explanations. Also, I find it very difficult to imagine an ESTJ with Aspergers.
 

Aleksei

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Aleksei. I believe you are an ENTP who is confusing his Ti with Si (Si likes tradition and checks that you try to follow what is normal and Ti checks internal consistency to your personal norm), Fi (very similar to Ti in many ways, especially for questions on tests), and possibly Te (you say people here often mistake it for Fi, and both are logical organisers, so maybe they're not so mistaken). I may be wrong, but you seem to fit the ENTP profile the best based solely on my experience and your explanations. Also, I find it very difficult to imagine an ESTJ with Aspergers.
Ti is introverted logic -- logic as it relates to what one has deduced to be correct and fit into his own logical framework (as opposed to Te, which relates information to what has been observed to be correct). It's not related to an internal status quo. That, itself, is Si. You might be confusing the two because you're INTP and have both. Checking for what is normal is more related to societal ethics, which is Fe-Si rather than standalone Si.

There is an ESTJ on here with a confirmed Asperger's diagnosis.
 

Aleksei

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Speaking of which, what is your standard for MBTI?
What I've learned so far of the theory. The functions, how they work, the works.

All signs point to a person being N if they keep doing that :D
It's more Ne than anything else... and if one thing's clear about me it's that I have a lot of Ne. ;)
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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Ti is introverted logic -- logic as it relates to what one has deduced to be correct (as opposed to Te, which relates information to what has been observed to be correct). It's not related to an internal status quo. That, itself, is Si. You might be confusing the two because you're INTP and have both.

Oh okay. Someone said it was. However, I doubt that Ti is not based in observed logic. How can you have logic that does not spring from observation, and conversely, how can you have logic that you did not deduce from that observation. I have been told that Ti focuses on making sure you focus on keeping with an internal logic system (however you get it) and in that way it does serve as a sort of standard, living by what makes sense to you, and this is what I meant.
 

Aleksei

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It is an internal logical system, but it isn't an internal status quo -- that would be Si.

You should note however, that Si and Ti don't necessarily stand opposed to one another, given that Si is a perception function (filters information), and Ti is a Judgment function (interprets information and makes decisions) Judgment and perception are sort of like an input and output function in a computer.
 

KDude

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It's more Ne than anything else... )

Why? Quite a few Ni types (here or more well known ones) appreciate it too..if not write books on it. It's simultaneously masochistic and kind of fun to squint your eyes through all of this garbage, and find something that actually might be useful.
 

Tiltyred

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I'm not neat; I'm messy, and I appear to be disorganized (I know where everything is, but it doesn't look like I possibly could).

I don't care what anybody else does -- it doesn't drive me crazy if other people do things and get away with them -- I don't compare myself to other people or get involved in their business.

I'm not as formal as other INFJs.

I'm not afraid of conflict except on a very deep level. But at the level of saying, "I don't think that's right," or "I see it differently," I am more than fine.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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It is an internal logical system, but it isn't an internal status quo -- that would be Si.

You should note however, that Si and Ti don't necessarily stand opposed to one another, given that Si is a perception function (filters information), and Ti is a Judgment function (interprets information and makes decisions) Judgment and perception are sort of like an input and output function in a computer.

But does that mean someone with low Si would have next to no desire for logical consistency, even if they had a very high Ti?
 

Mondo

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But does that mean someone with low Si would have next to no desire for logical consistency, even if they had a very high Ti?

Given what the Sensing function is supposed to represent, I really don't understand either why Si would have anything to do with logical consistency. More like physical consistency- if you ask me.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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Given what the Sensing function is supposed to represent, I really don't understand either why Si would have anything to do with logical consistency. More like physical consistency- if you ask me.

Yeah, in the (huge) INTP profile I looked up, it said that our Si is what made us get attatched to things that may remind us of the past, collect things, and have a good sense of atmosphere and mood, and to focus only on details of the external world which are relevant to us. It said nothing about keeping up logical consistency. I still reckon that's mostly a Ti area.

Finally, the dominant Ti function means that the INTP takes his interests and beliefs very seriously. Honesty and directness when explaining these interests are usually displayed. INTPs detest facades and particulary dislike people who exhibit them.

Related to this is the central aspect of independence. INTP's put great weight on being individuals and essentially different from other people, who they often view as being too alike and too interdependent. Independence touches on many aspects. One is the competency aspect above. When he is interested in something, then the INTP must be competent in it. But there are many things which don't interest him, and some of these will be things that others may be very competent in and where it may be assumed that everyone should be competent in them.

I think these are two examples of how Ti can be used as a standard. I was discussing this earlier on Ti and it's similar relation to Fi, which creates values and ethics.
 

Elfboy

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some differences between myself and most ENFPs are that I
1) am horrible socially
2) don't like most of people
3) am very logical
4) practical and pragmatic
 

Trentham

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I don't fit the stereotypical physical description of an INTP (a common guess is ISTP).

Generally speaking, I suck at math and hard sciences.

I don't mind affection, and have no issues returning it in kind.
 

Synapse

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Dunno. Probably am in some way different, maybe less than I think, maybe more than I feel. Depends, depends, I would love my vapid infp imagination back now, its more fun than the distilled version of thinkingness, feelingness and visualness.
 

Craft

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Generally speaking, I suck at math and hard sciences.

I don't mind affection, and have no issues returning it in kind.

that could mean you don't have Inferior Fe and Dominant Ti. Were you always this way?
 

Trentham

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that could mean you don't have Inferior Fe and Dominant Ti. Were you always this way?
For certain, T/F is the one indicator I've given the most thought to possibly being wrong about. I've considered the possibility that I might be closer to INFP, except I don't identify at all with making subjective value judgments (Fi). My emotional side seems to be much more in line with inferior Fe, in that I'm still pretty much socially clueless at age 36 despite having extensive life experience. That being said, once I'm comfortable enough in a social setting (i.e., in a committed relationship) giving and receiving affection is never a problem. In fact, as I've mentioned in another thread, I may actually lack sufficient subtlety in that arena.

As for the math/science stuff, I think that's a function of my lack of patience and poor attention to detail more than anything else. Math demands definitive, unflinching precision, which is something I struggle with. I'm fine with the basic functions (in fact, maybe a little above average), but the fact that one small misstep can fuck up everything leads to a lot of frustration.
 

Craft

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My emotional side seems to be much more in line with inferior Fe, in that I'm still pretty much socially clueless at age 36 despite having extensive life experience.

Ok then. You haven't considered Tertiary/Inferior Fi?

but the fact that one small misstep can fuck up everything leads to a lot of frustration.

yeah, me too.
 

Trentham

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You haven't considered Tertiary/Inferior Fi?
Not really. Functionally speaking that would put me in the xNTJ arena, which I don't see as a strong possibility because my use of Te is almost nonexistent.
 
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