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  1. #161
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Oh, one more thing: What I crossed out isn't really so much the S parts of ESTJ, but rather what people think are the S parts of it. Si is about reliance on experience and previously-gathered data, which used to equal traditionalism in a time when information was very limited, but doesn't have to anymore. An SJ who wasn't taught a coherent system of moral values, or who has received sufficient information conflicting with those (which is quite readily available these days -- the Moral Guardians' concerns about media corrupting young minds is quite justified in the case of Si users) will probably not be very traditional.
    I agree, it's not traditionalism per se.. Although there is a heavy reliance on a certain kind of steadiness/standards of normalcy, possibly the most detail oriented in it's fact checking, more comfortable with "official" information, familiar routines, authorities, etc.. It all sounds suffocating in the abstract, but I think it plays out differently in people.

  2. #162
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I don't even think it need be official or related to the establishment. They just need a set standard, something against which to compare or which to apply to anything new they might encounter.
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  3. #163
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I don't even think it need be official or related to the establishment. They just need a set standard, something against which to compare or which to apply to anything new they might encounter.
    True enough.

    Speaking of which, what is your standard for MBTI? Me, as much as I like relying on authorities or official documentation, I'm lost in making it more complicated, fitting round pegs into square holes, theorizing.. All signs point to a person being N if they keep doing that

  4. #164
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Aleksei. I believe you are an ENTP who is confusing his Ti with Si (Si likes tradition and checks that you try to follow what is normal and Ti checks internal consistency to your personal norm), Fi (very similar to Ti in many ways, especially for questions on tests), and possibly Te (you say people here often mistake it for Fi, and both are logical organisers, so maybe they're not so mistaken). I may be wrong, but you seem to fit the ENTP profile the best based solely on my experience and your explanations. Also, I find it very difficult to imagine an ESTJ with Aspergers.

  5. #165
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    Aleksei. I believe you are an ENTP who is confusing his Ti with Si (Si likes tradition and checks that you try to follow what is normal and Ti checks internal consistency to your personal norm), Fi (very similar to Ti in many ways, especially for questions on tests), and possibly Te (you say people here often mistake it for Fi, and both are logical organisers, so maybe they're not so mistaken). I may be wrong, but you seem to fit the ENTP profile the best based solely on my experience and your explanations. Also, I find it very difficult to imagine an ESTJ with Aspergers.
    Ti is introverted logic -- logic as it relates to what one has deduced to be correct and fit into his own logical framework (as opposed to Te, which relates information to what has been observed to be correct). It's not related to an internal status quo. That, itself, is Si. You might be confusing the two because you're INTP and have both. Checking for what is normal is more related to societal ethics, which is Fe-Si rather than standalone Si.

    There is an ESTJ on here with a confirmed Asperger's diagnosis.
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  6. #166
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Speaking of which, what is your standard for MBTI?
    What I've learned so far of the theory. The functions, how they work, the works.

    All signs point to a person being N if they keep doing that
    It's more Ne than anything else... and if one thing's clear about me it's that I have a lot of Ne.
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  7. #167
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Ti is introverted logic -- logic as it relates to what one has deduced to be correct (as opposed to Te, which relates information to what has been observed to be correct). It's not related to an internal status quo. That, itself, is Si. You might be confusing the two because you're INTP and have both.
    Oh okay. Someone said it was. However, I doubt that Ti is not based in observed logic. How can you have logic that does not spring from observation, and conversely, how can you have logic that you did not deduce from that observation. I have been told that Ti focuses on making sure you focus on keeping with an internal logic system (however you get it) and in that way it does serve as a sort of standard, living by what makes sense to you, and this is what I meant.
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  8. #168
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    It is an internal logical system, but it isn't an internal status quo -- that would be Si.

    You should note however, that Si and Ti don't necessarily stand opposed to one another, given that Si is a perception function (filters information), and Ti is a Judgment function (interprets information and makes decisions) Judgment and perception are sort of like an input and output function in a computer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  9. #169
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    It's more Ne than anything else... )
    Why? Quite a few Ni types (here or more well known ones) appreciate it too..if not write books on it. It's simultaneously masochistic and kind of fun to squint your eyes through all of this garbage, and find something that actually might be useful.

  10. #170
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I'm not neat; I'm messy, and I appear to be disorganized (I know where everything is, but it doesn't look like I possibly could).

    I don't care what anybody else does -- it doesn't drive me crazy if other people do things and get away with them -- I don't compare myself to other people or get involved in their business.

    I'm not as formal as other INFJs.

    I'm not afraid of conflict except on a very deep level. But at the level of saying, "I don't think that's right," or "I see it differently," I am more than fine.

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