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  1. #1
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Default Alternating Jungian Cognitive Functions

    Anyone know why every MBTI type has an alternating extroverted and introverted pattern for their 4 leading processes? (Makes sense that their primary function defines I/E.)

    Examples:

    ENTJ - Te, Ni, Se, Fi
    INFP - Fi, Ne, Si, Te

    Why can't types be:

    ENTJ - Te, Ne, Se, Fi
    INFP - Fi, Ni, Se, Te

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    one of the first two functions need to be extraverted and one introverted because you use one for making a judgment and one for collecting data. J types use their judgement extroverted(Je) and collects these "facts" from inside using Pi function. for example intj uses Te(Je function) to decide what things are true and what are false, then he uses Pi(Ni) to perceive this data that has already been judged and true or false and builds a big picture out of them. Now intj has Fi as a secondary J funtion(3rd overall), the reason why this other J function is introverted instead of extroverted is because it would simply just clash with the other Je function and because the external world is dealt with logic(Te) its hard to see it from F point of view, so the F function works introverted. This also helps when you cant really make sense about something using Je and Pi, Ji will offer kind of new perspective to intj who would normally use Je for what ever is being dealt while not clashing with known facts(Te). in same way if intj would have Si it would clash with Ni and the intj just wouldnt know what to trust
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #3
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    I'm guessing it is because having your two main functions be one attitude would lead to unhealthy interactions. You might have someone who is unable to function on their own or is unable to communicate and interact with others. The described "balanced" function orders are designed around what is typical of healthy individuals. The theory would say that your INFP example is really an unhealthy ISFP.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  4. #4
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I think it makes sense that the first two most used functions would probably include an extroverted and an introverted one, and a judgment and perceiving one. Seems like a good place to start. The functions after that may exist in all sorts of different orders. I don't believe those are as set in stone.

    There are a few things I want to mention:
    - Sometimes it's better to just think of four functions (N, S, T, F). If you're using the eight function scale but your T is just insanely high percentage-wise, you may have a stronger Ti and Te than a lot of other functions. So your eight function distribution might look very outside the "prescribed" order.

    - I do think it's true that a more introverted Thinker will be a more extroverted Feeler on average, and vice versa (and with S/N). The reason for this is that judgment overall is likely going to include a good amount of extroversion and a good amount of introversion. If you have one strongly introverted judgment function, the other judgment function will have more incentive to compensate in the other direction.

    So, there are definitely trends in function distributions. But it surely isn't as concrete as the commonly accepted view seems to imply.

  5. #5
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    It makes sense that the second function have the opposite attitude that the first one does. And the fourth function always has the opposite attitude of the first. So I suppose for symmetry the third has the opposite attitude of the second.

    So for introverts:

    Functions 1 and 3 are introverted; functions 2 and 4 are extraverted

    For extraverts:

    Functions 1 and 3 are extraverted; functions 2 and 4 are introverted


    I have heard a theory that the tertiary function can take on either the introverted or the extraverted attitude. Thoughts?
    INtp
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  6. #6
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm-shift View Post
    It makes sense that the second function have the opposite attitude that the first one does. And the fourth function always has the opposite attitude of the first. So I suppose for symmetry the third has the opposite attitude of the second.

    So for introverts:

    Functions 1 and 3 are introverted; functions 2 and 4 are extraverted

    For extraverts:

    Functions 1 and 3 are extraverted; functions 2 and 4 are introverted


    I have heard a theory that the tertiary function can take on either the introverted or the extraverted attitude. Thoughts?
    When you number the functions, what do you really mean? Is it just a label? Or is there some content I'm missing?

    Do you mean people must use functions in that distribution?
    Do you mean that people tend to?
    Do you mean that's what people should strive for?

  7. #7
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    It doesn't have to be that way...

    That's just the what the dominant paradigm says.

    The 16 MBTI types are based on a very specific set of rules for ordering the functions.

    Many Jungian theorists (including Jung himself) did/do not believe in the ordering rules of MBTI.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Moonstone3's Avatar
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    So, on that note, I pulled up the cognitive function test and my 4 highest scores were all introverted functions? I was trying to decipher between INTP and INTJ(as I recently pulled up 2 bookmarked pages on my computer that were test results for INTJ-Thought I was INTP -J was a low percentage).
    Does this mean I am an unhealthy INTJ or INTP? And how do I figure out which one it is?
    I got Ti and Te for the top 2. Ahh!!!
    What is normal to one, is incomprehensible to another.

    ALL anger in this world stems from a lack of control.


    All of reality bows to the illusion of life and death.

  9. #9
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonstone3 View Post
    So, on that note, I pulled up the cognitive function test and my 4 highest scores were all introverted functions? I was trying to decipher between INTP and INTJ(as I recently pulled up 2 bookmarked pages on my computer that were test results for INTJ-Thought I was INTP -J was a low percentage).
    Does this mean I am an unhealthy INTJ or INTP? And how do I figure out which one it is?
    I got Ti and Te for the top 2. Ahh!!!
    Look at your most used function. Let's use me as an example and say Ti (this means you are either INTP or ISTP). Now, all you do is compare Se to Ne, and voila, you have your type! All the other functions are irrelevant.

    So if Ti is your highest, check Se vs. Ne
    if Ni is your highest, check Te vs. Fe

    if Ti and Ni are tied, check which of (Se, Ne, Te, Fe) is the highest.


    (Or you can just use my calculator )

  10. #10
    Senior Member Moonstone3's Avatar
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    My Ti and Ni are tied, My Te and Ne are tied. I'm gonna try to review the questions. Surely I can break the tie.
    What is normal to one, is incomprehensible to another.

    ALL anger in this world stems from a lack of control.


    All of reality bows to the illusion of life and death.

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