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Only one function can be in control of consciousness at a time

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
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Oct 31, 2009
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I put you in a similar box as I put Jag, with possibly two "dominant" functions.

Ne and Se.

If I had to choose one, I'd probably go with Se, but, well, I don't.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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I have a very strong tertiary as well... and my supporting function doesn't know when to STFU... I can't do anything without another function modulating anything... it's a fail and I totally don't see any speck of rightness in the statement in the OP- we are ourselves first- humans are more complex than a heirarchy of letters :doh:
 

highlander

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Despite the fact a mod once locked you out of a thread for calling people "retarded,"here you are entering a conversation and the first thing you do is call the participants, "retarded." It's imposible to take you seriously. Grow up, Kalach. You've been behaving like this for far too long.

He is referring to logical consequences of one's actions and external measurements that are being applied. That is Te.

He has a personal belief that Kalach shouldn't act this way, to the point that "it's impossible to take you seriously" and he needs to "grow up". He doesn't seem to consider much about what others might think that are participating in the thread - either about what Kalach says or how he personally responds, e.g. Would others find Kalach's post humorous and insightful? Would others think his response too harsh?. It is his subjective and personal opinion. :) That is Fi.

Fe is not so overtly critical.

At least that would be my interpretation anyway.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
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Messages
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Fair enough.

I can alternately imagine a self-righteous, old, male, enneagram-8, ENFJ driven to control others behavior due to what he perceives to be objective violations of proper behavior.

:shrug:

Similar behavior could certainly be ascribed to ExTJs, as well, I guess... (as has already been admitted.)
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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:nono:

quit being nitpicky, grumpy and petulant... you're ruining a good argument for goodness sake! :boohoo:

(or do it more dramatically if you're going to do so so that I can see the results for my amusement :whistling:)
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
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quit being nitpicky, grumpy and petulant...

He's just being an INTJ. Reference today's adventures with Invisible Jim in the Pitchfork thread.
 

miss fortune

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if it's some good forum drama I shall check it out :holy:

they're just not being dramatically pissy enough in this thread... just poking at each other :sleeping:
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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If you're going to get your panties in a wad over this,
What are you talking about? Is this just some substitute for making a real point?
Then disagree with Linda.
I do on that point.
Just like I disagree with the fear mongering of Lenore. Lenore is afraid of her own shadow. Literally.
Again; what are you talking about? Do you even know?
But you are sounding a bit like a parrot when you keep squawking about "perspectives" thread after thread.
You're the one who's "squawking" now. Just look at these last few statements.

We both have the book, Eric.
You are taking her too literally. She first defines a process in that book which I already posted. The "philosophies," are merely an additional way of looking at the processes.
And that's all I'm presenting it as. An alternative way (which I believe is better).
What if in lieu of the word, "philosophies" she chose the word "instruments" and used a symphony orchestra analogy. Then what - would you run around the forum telling people to use the word, "instrument"? Let's hope not.
Again; you're not making any sense. What good is "what ifs" now? You sound like you're complaining just to complain.

I agree with all of them, depending on the situation.
I can't even imagine saying only ONE of those is my "Philosophy of Life." Like I said, I think you are taking her a bit too literally. She already defined a process and she even wrote:

No single process operates in isolation.


Which also implies no "Life Philosophy" operates in isolation, either.
She's just giving the reader one more way to look at Ne, Se, or any of the other processes.
Well, who ever said anything about "operating in isolation"?

Precisely my premise, concepts liks "philosophy" or "perspective" make it easier to see how they can be used simultaneously. This in contrast to thinking of them as gears or opposing "skills", which is what makes them sound like they are used in "isolation".
Hence, as you said; it's all about simply giving more ways to look at things. I simply think some are better than others. I don't see what the problem is.
You're really arguing over nothing, here.
The operative word is processes, Eric. Processes. Don't play games. We both know Lenore's Beam-Me-Up-Scotty book is not about the processes, per se. It is about Personality TYPE, and all her incessant babbling about Captain Kirk. If someone wishes to buy a book to learn the processes, that sure isn't one to buy.
She doesn't call them "processes", but she still discusses the function-attitudes there.
Again, I don't see any point here.

And she uses fictional characters, because they are often archetypal models of functions, archetypes and types.

It's merely the redundancy of it all, Eric. You and I end up in many of the same threads, so I see how many times you tell people to use "perspectives." The same can be said of Victor who repeatedly uses the same words "trance" or God help us all, "Cognitive Dissonance." It's the repetitive nature that is annoying. Kind of like when you would start your posts with, "Lenore says."

Then you don't know his style.
It's the same style; and you are just as repetitive. Maybe not with particular words, but in just heckling the theories and not making much of any point.

I'm repetitive, because there is a lot of confusion over these concepts, and I believe a different way of looking at things might be the solution.
(Just look at Berens' third "philosophy", about Ne; and also both her and Beebe's concept of the auxiliary as "parent" archetype).
Sometimes, it takes some redundancy for an idea to be understood, and for more people to begin to get the hang of it.

It's confusing to you, perhaps. Or you just don't like it. You might also one day realize that not all people fit cleanly into a given type. Even the MBTI handbook remarks not everyone is a clear type.
Who ever said they did/were? Again, you do not seem to be understanding what you are criticizing.
 

Jaguar

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Do we have evidence that the functions are mutually exclusive? Can we? What do they represent exactly? Why are these things grouped and not others in our model?
Is F and T a real dichotomy? Why must what is not thinking be feeling? Why must what is not intuition be sensing?

Ding. Ding. Ding. Great questions.


Abstract
Journal of Personality Assessment
1993, Vol. 60, No. 2, Pages 290-301

Bipolarity in Jungian Type Theory and the Myers--Briggs Type Indicator
Steven A. Girelli, *Jayne E. Stake*



The standard form of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI; Myers & McCaultey, 1985) was constructed to measure introversion/extroversion, sensing/ intuiting, and thinking/feeling as single, bipolar dimensions. We tested this assumption of bipolarity with a Likert form of the MBTI that allowed for the independent assessment of each attitude and function. A total of 106 female and 59 male undergraduate and graduate students completed the standard and Likert MBTI forms approximately 3 weeks apart. Evidence for the bipolarity of the introversion/extroversion dimension was weak, and findings did not support the bipolarity of the sensing/intuiting or thinking/feeling dimensions. Results provide evidence that high negative correlations within MBTI dimensions are an artifact of its forced-choice format.


I put you in a similar box as I put Jag, with possibly two "dominant" functions.


Example of a team leader’s type mode profile using the SL-TDI. (Singer and Loomis.)

Extraverted Sensation Dominant
Extraverted Thinking Dominant

Extraverted Intuition Auxiliary

Introverted Feeling Mid-Mode
Introverted Thinking Mid-Mode
Introverted Sensing Mid-Mode

Extraverted Feeling Least Developed
Introverted Intuition Least Developed


All food for thought for what is possible.
 

Seymour

Vaguely Precise
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Ding. Ding. Ding. Great questions.

Example of a team leader’s type mode profile using the SL-TDI. (Singer and Loomis.)

All food for thought for what is possible.

Despite my irritation with your seagull approach to responding to posts, I agree the SL-TDI sounds interesting and helps resolves some problems with traditional MBTI type dynamics. It's too bad there's no online version to take (at least that I can find), nor any books on the subject that I've been able to track down. I've met too many people who seem to lead with confusing mixes of functions (Ti-Si for example) to think that the standard models of type dynamics are always correct for everyone.

Still, I'd think at least alluding to what you do think is correct is far more helpful than simply attacking what you think is incorrect. I'd certainly be open to other models that more fully reflect reality, even if they aren't so consistent in pattern.
 

Jaguar

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Despite my irritation with your seagull approach to responding to posts, I agree the SL-TDI sounds interesting and helps resolves some problems with traditional MBTI type dynamics. It's too bad there's no online version to take (at least that I can find), nor any books on the subject that I've been able to track down.

Here's a quick pointer for you: When you are looking for information on a topic, don't begin your post by being snarky.
Now that we got that out of the way, here's some info you may find interesting:

The Singer-Loomis Inventory of Personality

This is the work of two Jungian analysts, June Singer and Mary Loomis. It is not only the newest of the tests, but it is structured differently, for it does not make the assumption that the three measures of extraversion-introversion, thinking- feeling and sensation-intuition must be opposed to each other.


SINGER-LOOMIS TDI: THE NEXT GENERATION OF PSYCHOLOGICAL TYPE INSTRUMENT
http://haskayne.ucalgary.ca/haskaynefaculty/files/haskaynefaculty/singer-loomis.pdf

An Inventory designed to assess personality functioning
http://www.movingboundaries.com/
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Farp, and it's even called a type deployment inventory.

You damn extrovert, Jag. With all your years of experience you should know by now that your dominant function influences your development of ideas, and particularly in this case some theory that appeals to reality as it really happens in the external world will be right up your alley. But what level of truth does it represent?

It can't possibly not represent truth. To say so is to say that people with dominant e functions are routinely wrong, which they're not. But to say it's the whole story is to say one set of functions does always do better at everything than any other set.

Begs the question, how much of the real world as we see it is indicative what goes on inside a person?

Probably a lot of it is.

But we are surely also familiar with the idea that appearances deceive.


(Hello Ni imperative... one now wonders if it is always necessary to see behind what is presented? Well, yes, for me, it is. Otherwise I have nothing particularly interesting to get involved with here. But is that a dominant function dominating or is it a learned approach that allows a particular specialization of functioning? Either way, I'm not going to get far merely cataloging what the external world offers--I'd also like to wildly speculate in the hope of coming up with a renewed picture of what is real.

Still, how does that holism emerge? By functions taking command of consciousness or by some other holism already in existence? Or by yo momma?)
 

Seymour

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Here's a quick pointer for you: When you are looking for information on a topic, don't begin your post by being snarky.
Now that we got that out of the way, here's some info you may find interesting:

The Singer-Loomis Inventory of Personality

This is the work of two Jungian analysts, June Singer and Mary Loomis. It is not only the newest of the tests, but it is structured differently, for it does not make the assumption that the three measures of extraversion-introversion, thinking- feeling and sensation-intuition must be opposed to each other.


SINGER-LOOMIS TDI: THE NEXT GENERATION OF PSYCHOLOGICAL TYPE INSTRUMENT
http://haskayne.ucalgary.ca/haskaynefaculty/files/haskaynefaculty/singer-loomis.pdf

An Inventory designed to assess personality functioning
http://www.movingboundaries.com/

Yep, already found those. But thanks!
 

Jaguar

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Messages
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You damn extrovert, Jag. With all your years of experience you should know by now that your dominant function influences your development of ideas, and particularly in this case some theory that appeals to reality as it really happens in the external world will be right up your alley. But what level of truth does it represent?

It can't possibly not represent truth. To say so is to say that people with dominant e functions are routinely wrong, which they're not. But to say it's the whole story is to say one set of functions does always do better at everything than any other set.

Begs the question, how much of the real world as we see it is indicative what goes on inside a person?

Probably a lot of it is.

But we are surely also familiar with the idea that appearances deceive.


(Hello Ni imperative... one now wonders if it is always necessary to see behind what is presented? Well, yes, for me, it is. Otherwise I have nothing particularly interesting to get involved with here. But is that a dominant function dominating or is it a learned approach that allows a particular specialization of functioning? Either way, I'm not going to get far merely cataloging what the external world offers--I'd also like to wildly speculate in the hope of coming up with a renewed picture of what is real.

Still, how does that holism emerge? By functions taking command of consciousness or by some other holism already in existence? Or by yo momma?)

Kalach do you have anything to offer in this thread other than calling people retards or screwing with people in general? And you wonder why you're not taken seriously. Go sleep it off.
 

highlander

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Kalach do you have anything to offer in this thread other than calling people retards or screwing with people in general? And you wonder why you're not taken seriously. Go sleep it off.

Arrrggghhh. Where is your sense of humor?

I thought Kalach was in Asia - which would make it the middle of the afternoon or something.

Are you suggesting an afternoon nap?
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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I don't as a matter of routine make executive decisions about what people are doing right now, so the Singer Loomis version of type--seemingly aka "type is whatever you're doing right now"--doesn't appeal. I do however as a matter of routine dream up longer term conceptualizations, possibly even attempting to be predictive, so some theory of type that allows a longer term focus on the person as an object both in and out of a changing environment suits better.

See? If we all work together, we'll have eventually contributed the whole picture. What remains to be determined is how much of our own pictures we'll have to abandon and how much will have to be augmented by stuff we don't like.


Are you feeling the love? I am.
 

Jaguar

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12 steps of love awaits.
MBTI= what type are you right now.
 
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