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  1. #71
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    That is an interesting question...

    Why could it not be both...? (Oh, bonjour a nouveau, monsieur Ni...)
    Conceivably it is both.

    But maybe a distinction between products of consciousness and consciousness itself is in order. The consciousness gives rise to the product and handles it, but the consciousness itself is some other ongoing system that includes conscious and unconscious processes for that handling.



    The whole system operates according to a fixed order, dominant > auxiliary > tertiary > inferior, but which product assumes priority at any given time is, I dunno, the joy of being a dynamic system operating under more than one perspective and more than one imperative and certainly under changing conditions. Or something.

    I dunno. I'm taking it for granted that functions can't exist in isolation, but can be more or less influential in determining the nature of conscious (and unconscious) product.

    However, it seems like the whole distinction between product and process, or the job of trying to describe that distinction, gets fubared by, I guess, some kind of uncertainty principle--once some product of consciousness is conscious it becomes something other than what it was when it was forming out of unconsciousness.

    Consciousness supervenes on the mechanism? (Suggesting no function is ever "in control" of consciousness.... :horor


    I dunno. I'm just riffing.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If you would actually type someone based upon whether or not a person says, "Grow up," rather than factoring in age, I can't take you seriously, either. If you really want to be told to "Grow up," then maybe I should invite my ESTJ pal who is in his 50's, to join.
    Well, don't worry, cuz I would not type someone based solely on one observed behavior. That would be retarded.

    Nor would I ever claim that some behavior is exclusive to one or several types. That would also be retarded.

    The truth is: I have over a dozen reasons why this (you being an ENxJ) is my current working hypothesis.

    So, not that you take me seriously anyway, and not that I care whether you do, but, based solely on the reason you offered, you don't have reason not to.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    To be frank, you can type me ABRG or 1234. It really means nothing.

  4. #74
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    True: you are what you are.

  5. #75
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    It is my impression that one never stops perceiving anything (i.e Si, Ni etc.). I do agree that it could be a process that occurs individually, but no amount of speech can express how quickly our brain computes. Jaguar's tollbooth analogy got me thinking. Why does sequental have to mean that something stops. Streamlining hints towards just getting rid of the tollbooths and going into the fast lane sort of speak. I also see functions being somewhat like a highway where different on ramps lead to the same mega highway. All converging to that one idea, perspective, or thought process. All eight have their own on ramp.

  6. #76

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    number set = 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9

    2,3,5,7 / 4,6,8,9 (prime/not prime)
    2,4,6,8 / 3,5,7,9 (even/odd)
    2,3,5,8 / 4,6,7,9 (Fibonacci/not Fibonacci)

    Do we have evidence that the functions are mutually exclusive? Can we? What do they represent exactly? Why are these things grouped and not others in our model?
    Is F and T a real dichotomy? Why must what is not thinking be feeling? Why must what is not intuition be sensing?
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #77
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Question:

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    What does everyone think about this statement?

    "Only one function can be in control of consciousness at any single point in time"

    For example, I can't be reflecting (introverting) a function at the same time as I'm talkative (extraverting). So, I can't be using my dominant function at the same time as I'm using my auxiliary.
    Answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I can't picture how any single function can work seperatly from any other- none can stand on their own- they need the support of others in a way- they're just building blocks, they're not the be all, end all.
    I love how whatever cuts to the chase.

    Most MBTI type analysis that discusses the functions tends to attribute the "problems" of a type to a lack of differentiating functions other than the dominant.

    I also like Jag's symphonic analogy: they're working in concert (pun intended), whether conscious or unconscious.

    Finally, the notion of "using" a function to perform an activity is problematic at best. It is helpful when trying to describe how the function "works," but it isn't the function that makes the action happen: it is the individual's choice. The function(s) is(are) but a fraction of the elements that go into any choice.

  8. #78
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Despite the fact a mod once locked you out of a thread for calling people "retarded," here you are entering a conversation and the first thing you do is call the participants, "retarded." It's impossible to take you seriously. Grow up, Kalach. You've been behaving like this for far too long.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    This is why I question whether Jag is an ENTJ or ENFJ.

    I consider him an ENxJ, which would imply two dominant functions, and add a new wrinkle to your obsession, Kalach...
    Actually, I would consider the above quote to reflect Te + Fi.

    Not that I'm trying to type anybody.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Actually, I would consider the above quote to reflect Te + Fi.

    Not that I'm trying to type anybody.
    Why not Fe?

    When it feels someone is violating an objective ethical standard?

  10. #80
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    thanks uumlau! it's nice to know that some people pay attention to no nonsense bluntness!

    and I'd like to know how the people on this forum are going around observing MY dominant function... which doesn't translate well online AT ALL (though I find it well integrated with the rest of the parts of my personality to the point where it would kill my personality to remove it- the same with any of them really- these functions are, to my personality what my organs are to my body... useful organs, that is... not the appendix and spleen )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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