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  1. #11
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    So I could be a ENFP but an introvert? :eek:
    In terms of sociability, yes. Extraverts in function theory place chief importance on external sources, but those external sources do not necessarily have to be other people. Ne doms tend to focus on particular objects of interest rather than other people, especially ENTPs, who can become rather reclusive.

  2. #12
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    P vs J:
    Sloppiness can be a Perceiver indicator, but it isn't the definition. You can be a Metallica fan without ever wearing the T-shirt. My ESTJ husband's desk is a mess, but his agenda is clean and often checked.

    The main distinction is planning versus improvising. J's don't like to come unprepared. If there's a deadline, the J would rather start four days too early than be one minute too late. If something unexpected breaks down their planning, they'll panic.

    The P needs the stress as a motivator. They would procrastinate, pull an all-nighter and be happy about the situation because they have had more time to play than the judger. They actually expect unexpected situations to break down their planning, so why plan in advance? We'll see what happens and find a solution on the moment.

    Maybe that's a better indicator than sloppy desks: how would you react to something breaking down your plans?
    "Next time, I won't lose time making plans because they break down anyway" -> P
    "Next time, I'll prepare for this situation too" -> J
    Of course, after a while, the P is good at improvising on the spot and appearing prepared; while the J would cover most situations in his plans.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  3. #13
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    So I could be a ENFP but an introvert? :eek:
    That depends on how you define introvert really.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    So I could be a ENFP but an introvert? :eek:
    i typed myself as INFP for years, before i actually researched enough about this stuff to learn why i didn't sound quite like the INFP profiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Judgment vs. perception
    The most notable addition of Myers and Briggs to Jung's original thought is their concept that a given type's fourth letter (J or P) is determined by how that type interacts with the external world, rather than by the type's dominant function. The difference becomes evident when assessing the cognitive functions of introverts.[1]:21-22

    To Jung, a type with dominant introverted thinking, for example, would be considered rational (judging) because the decision-making function is dominant. To Myers, however, that same type would be irrational (perceiving) because the individual uses an information-gathering function (either extraverted intuition or extraverted sensing) when interacting with the outer world.
    take a look at ENFP, INFP,and INFJ. who is most likely to be organized in their daily materials? INFJ, of course. but who is the most likely to have strong, unchanging convictions? probably INFP. INFP might be a P, but they are still judging dominant because their dominant function is introverted Feeling. it just so happens that typically, MBTI P types tend to be less externally organized - i assume that this is supposedly because they spend more time prioritizing the things in their heads (Ji) and taking in info from the world around them (Pe), while J types supposedly spend more time taking info in from themselves (Pi) and prioritizing things in the world around them (Je). on the other hand, ENFP, ESFP, ENTP, and ESTP take the chameleon cake because we rely on external perceiving (Pe) AND are perceiving dominant (PeJi) instead of auxiliary (JiPe).

    so to add on to the answer to your question... J/P and E/I aren't really more important, but they're more than just a simple sliding scale like N/F and S/T. and while J/P and I/E don't really tell you anything about what the content of your processing is, they indicate the way things are "set up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo
    Ne doms tend to focus on particular objects of interest rather than other people, especially ENTPs, who can become rather reclusive.
    yeah, exactly. Ne doms tend to really like theories and systems and stuff like that. i can ignore my social life with relative ease when i'm caught up in a pet project, even though i love getting together with friends and family, and big social events. i'm also kinda socially anxious, lol, and i've been really surprised to hear that it's not uncommon amongst ENFPs.

    lately i've been an advocate of determining simple N/S and F/T first, then J (Je/Pi) or P (Ji/Pe), then E (Je/Pi or Pe/Ji) or I (Pi/Je or JiPe) last. otherwise i think J and S, and N and P, can sometimes get confused, and I and E definitely have some misleading connotations.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    P vs J:
    Sloppiness can be a Perceiver indicator, but it isn't the definition. You can be a Metallica fan without ever wearing the T-shirt. My ESTJ husband's desk is a mess, but his agenda is clean and often checked.

    The main distinction is planning versus improvising. J's don't like to come unprepared. If there's a deadline, the J would rather start four days too early than be one minute too late. If something unexpected breaks down their planning, they'll panic.

    The P needs the stress as a motivator. They would procrastinate, pull an all-nighter and be happy about the situation because they have had more time to play than the judger. They actually expect unexpected situations to break down their planning, so why plan in advance? We'll see what happens and find a solution on the moment.

    Maybe that's a better indicator than sloppy desks: how would you react to something breaking down your plans?
    "Next time, I won't lose time making plans because they break down anyway" -> P
    "Next time, I'll prepare for this situation too" -> J
    Of course, after a while, the P is good at improvising on the spot and appearing prepared; while the J would cover most situations in his plans.
    Ahh... I think this post made me come to terms with my J finally... My desk looks like someone walked in with a stack of papers and sneeze and blew them all over the place... However... If you look at my calendar (all four of them ) they are all very neat and tidy...


  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coconut View Post
    I determines if your dominant function is introverted or extraverted -- it doesn't determine whether you are introverted or extraverted? So then, a person can be "I" and yet be outgoing and love to go to parties and have people over?
    In MBTI parlance, someone whose dominant function is introverted (Ti, Si, etc.) is an introvert, while someone whose dominant function is extraverted (Fe, Ne, etc.) is an extravert. This is part of how the types are defined. An introvert with, say, Fe will have it as an auxiliary function. An introvert who is outgoing and loves socializing is either very comfortable with their extraverted auxiliary function, or perhaps is really an extravert (ENFJ rather than INFJ).

  7. #17
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    to explain with a few examples from my real life here...

    thanks to cognitive functions, I'm an ESTP... Se as my dominant function and Ti as my highest introverted function... I tend to take in the information around me and be more present focused and focused on what is as opposed to what might be or what isn't... this doesn't mean that I'm not an industrial strength ditz/klutz who gets lost in their own world in the least bit... nor does it mean that I'm unable to comprehend theories (though I'm usually not interested in them unless I can apply them to something)

    I'm a Sensor who likes theory and spaces out frequently

    I'm a Perceiver who always shows up on time and tends to keep her kitchen in order

    I'm an Extrovert who blushes easily and is overwhelmed by crowds

    It's all functions... how we use them is a different story

    (I have an ISTJ with a rather messy desk, who works in a social job and who is more interested in sci fi than in history books )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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