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  1. #21

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    In case people are curious, here are our most popular members.

    Looking at the list. I think it is a matter of forum network dynamics. Many of these members have been chatting it up among themselves on their respective blogs.

    I think it is also a matter of who is encouraging who, as well as the posts that people like.

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  2. #22
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I do believe that Fe people are more popular.
    They have strong empathy combined with a desire for social harmony, which is guaranteed to make them more likeable people.
    ...
    EF's just tend to be the most appealing kinds of people. It is in their very nature.

    I personally have never considered it negative. ...
    Good post! I agree with it. I like Fe even if I'm Fi. It's appealing and Fe's are comfortably warm people & affirming. I usually like the feeling they give me when I'm around them.

    I really like Fe-people as friends but I wouldn't date one because that would be too much F around! And actually I have husband with very strong Ti.

  3. #23
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    In case people are curious, here are our most popular members.

    Looking at the list. I think it is a matter of forum network dynamics. Many of these members have been chatting it up among themselves on their respective blogs.

    I think it is also a matter of who is encouraging who, as well as the posts that people like.
    That's pretty much been my sentiment too, and it's diminishing the value of the reputation, altho it does have some redeeming qualities.

    So what follows is an essay, with the point that rep system is much like an early search engine algorithm, and we can learn from the comparison.

    I've read about how google ranks the pages.. incoming links are taken into consideration to form a score of a page's significance, but the quality of the links are being considered too.

    Google recognizes link farms and other mass linking that is not indicative of the page's relevance to the search words been queried.

    Then again, their proprietary search algorithm is quite large, considering the 300+ parameters they take into account when calculating the quality of each link, or "+rep of internet pages", as I might say.. not to mention, expensive.

    It is well beyond the capabilities of any small programming team, but it works well to remove the chances for google abuse. Giving reputation is very similar to google page ranking in many, but not all respects. We may not hope to approach the level of accuracy and relevance of google's page rankings, as their approach requires a large amount of highly reputed links to feed their data mining algorithms.

    So, we'll have "distorted" rep values, something that some people might reasonably consider as abuse, or at best, suboptimal and inaccurate.

    Then again, qualifiers "abuse" and "distortions" only apply if this is reputation is something to be cared about. Sadly, I feel compelled to care about it, but not due to reputation per se, but due to it's unavoidable consequences.

    Google is pretty much to be thanked for for the good web content we have today. It's anti-abuse features have discouraged the use of spurious linking tactics and other forms of "cheat", some of which were quite prevalent in the early days of the WWW.

    Remember web pages, that had just few keywords listed 1000 times, filled with links to commercial sites you couldn't care less about? It's google's good search algorithms that put end to this abusive behaviour.

    My educated guess is that we will encounter some disruptive rep-seeking behaviour if people continue to see high reps as something desirable. This is something we'll learn to handle (as we have already partly learned), but we'll continue to enjoy the forum nevertheless, albeit it'll be a bit different.

    On the positive side, early (easily cheatable) search engines encouraged good web content, too. We are much more coherent a bunch than the whole world wide web, and we're writing good stuff for each other. Rep undeniably has positive, noticeable effects as well.

    Things are just a bit different now. I think it requires a bit more juggling in this new scenario, but it's been fun so far, and gladly there's no end in sight
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    As much as this hardcore Ti stuff is a little overwhelming, it's EXACTLY what I wanted.

    Thanks pt, ygolo, santtu, and economica!
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  5. #25
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Well... I wouldn't say Fe is big on my list of most used functions, though Ne can often compensate for lack of it and also be confused for it.

    Much of my reputation has come from certain people giving me lots of points at a time "because I like you" or because they seem to want to include me in a social circle of sorts, and so if they see me falling behind, they look up my posts and just click, click, click the rep thing. Having said that, I've also earned a lot of points through people reading and appreciating my actual post contents. But you could equally say that the people who just "like me" do so because of my post content, generally, so either way it's earned.

    As to whether Fe is positive or negative on this board or anywhere else on the Internet, I'd have to go with positive, but no more or less so than any other function. Simply because I believe in diversity being a strength, a good thing, without which things tend to degenerate into mob-think and before you know it we're wearing white hoods and burning crosses... um, sorta.

    So I'd always rather include something, than exclude it, in general.

    However, thinking about the nature of Fe and what it does, it's a very powerful function in that it can ascertain a person's emotions, perhaps even when that person isn't even aware of them themselves, and then respond to/manipulate them in ways which leave little room for manoeuvre. This could result, if it's used badly, in alienating people with strong value/personal attacks, frightening them off from saying anything.

    This brings to mind for me female style school bullying. The main difference between female and male bullying is that male bullying tends to be Te driven, whilst female bullying is Fe driven. Whilst the boys will generally leave you alone after they've let you know in a very obvious (physical) way that they don't like you, the girls will never, ever leave you alone, and will not rest until they've verbally pummelled every last bit of self-esteem out of you, to make you think of yourself as a pathetic loser, a person nobody could possibly like, and to ensure that nobody else likes you either.

    This might also be a side effect of the boys' bullying, but it's not intended and often if the boys are made aware of the damage they've done to the victim, they feel guilty about it and often apologize and want to make amends. But I think that with the girl bullying it is intended, and if the subject is raised, they believe themselves to be fully justified in what they've done. (this comes from my experience and may not be universal)

    In my experience, the female bullies were known as the popular ones in the school or workplace. That is, they thought of themselves as popular. But it wasn't true popularity; in reality, people were just terrified of them, and of being their next target, and so generally didn't express openly their true opinions of them. And if anybody did, the bullies' Fe could easily spin it to look like that person was just bitter or mean or stupid or whatever, so that nobody would take them seriously and nobody would openly back them up, even if privately they wanted to.

    Obviously this can translate into internet forum culture as well... so... whilst I'd say that a healthy and positive manifestation of any function, including Fe, is very welcome and a positive contribution to anything, there are always the possibilities of not so positive uses of it coming in.

    I wouldn't say that mature, adult ExFJ's though are the main culprits for this. In the main, their use of Fe, as it's their dominant function, tends to be more positive, as they're more aware. Well, here anyway. I think that in adulthood, the danger of Fe abuse comes more from those of us who have it as a tertiary, shadow or inferior function, where we're not always aware we're using it, and when using it, often don't use it correctly.

    The footprints of inferior Fe at its worst can be seen all over INTPc, where very negative and oppressive vibes can often run rampant all over the forums, where everyone's in the grips of it but nobody's aware of it and they're all denying it. They're being mean spirited and rude and self-righteous but all the time convinced that it's pure logic and reason that they're acting under. Of course it's not always like that, but situations like that often do spring up, which I think illustrate the negative impact that bad Fe can have.

    I think though, that an ExFJ forum wouldn't be that way. I've never visited one, but I can imagine what it'd be like from thinking about my relatives at a family gathering - most of my aunts and sisters (and I have many) are ExFJ and when they get together it's usually very warm and pleasant and welcoming. That's the difference to me, of good Fe and bad Fe.
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  6. #26
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Very good point Sub!

    Fe is my tertiary function- certainly not primary- and I'm kind of annoyed to be brought into this whole popularity thing because I TURNED OFF MY REP SYSTEM FOR A REASON! It's for your own good! I'm horribly competitive and it's my way of making sure that I stay reigned in and don't do anything truly obnoxious or anything! I love the social aspect- and I have nothing against anyone who uses it- the black box is just a reminder to me to stay nice! I know my weaknesses and don't want to fall to them!

    Yes, Fe might be a good or evil function, just like any other- my primary function is Se, and I use that a hell of a lot more to be able to notice what's going on around and what everyone is typing in each and every thread- I try to keep things going and keep people feeling welcome because it keeps the site more interesting and therefore gives me more stimuli to watch!

    I'm sorry, but I'm just really offended that I got clumped in on this since I try to avoid arguments on what appears to be the latent issue of discussion by some people here my shillelagh arm is tired from dead horse beating yesterday and I really don't feel like having to beat another today!
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  7. #27
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    People! This is not about condemning anyone about the reputation system. Can't the rep system be mentioned without everyone turning all self-conscious? One of the questions I asked is if Fe users (as Heart pointed out) would be more likely to use the reputation system for whatever reasons. Please stop focusing on that one aspect of several questions. This was not some undercover swipe at the higher ranked posters. Your skirts are not tucked into your underwear. Good grief.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #28
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Um, I didn't think it was? My explanation of my reputation was meant by way of answering all of the questions, in that many of the points I've received have been for Ne/Ti driven posts, suggesting that it isn't just Fe that earns popularity. And explaining that Ne can function in some similar ways to Fe. I wasn't trying to defend my reputation because I'm pretty indifferent to it. I was kinda explaining it and correlating it with the OP's questions, to use it to answer them. It's all I can do since obviously I don't know what points other people have got or what for.

    And the rest of my post had nothing to do with the rep system
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Note to self: Do not mention the Rep System as the criteria for choosing the most "Fe" oriented people on the forum, because people will focus on that, especially when the question itself is so broad:

    Would people say the use of Fe here at MBTIc is negative? Positive?
    Yes, and yes. Sometimes Fe (I think) is used to control behavior or for someone to get their way, or try to; it can be used to shout down someone's opinion (because it labels the dissenter's ideas as "inappropriate" -- which might or might not be true).

    And sometimes Fe is used to smooth things out and patch things up, or to accommodate other viewpoints and be respectful.

    We are all imperfect people, so Fe sometimes ends up being a pain and other times being helpful. It is just par for the course for any function.

    Are there any collective manifestations of other functions on the forum?
    I think Fe is one of the more obvious functions in use here. There are a few Ti style conversations that spring up from time to time, but the general mood of this forum is more casual. It's more important [this is a statement, not a criticism] for everyone to be able to state their opinion, rather than to arrive at some definitive analysis. This could be partly an Ni thing as well.

    There is a lot of playful Ne style joking going on, daily, around the forum.

    I don't think Se is represented much, mostly because of the medium.

    Si shows up more in entrenched viewpoints of right and wrong, proper or improper. It also shows up in nostalgic conversations.

    But predominately, I would say Fe and Ne are the two most prominent functions here.
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  10. #30
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    sorry- I was just responding to some other posts- I don't like to feel insulted and not get to respond!

    and just picture the sadness of not getting to let my Se shine as much as it should! :sad: I have to use Fe more here than in real life because it's a closer connection to everyone else here than my dominant function is!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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