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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I haven't read that many of your posts but fwiw you strike me as an SFP.
    Heh yeah.. that's what everyone been saying lately.


    INTP as ISFP's shadow.. I've read that before too (in addition to ENTJ).

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    INTP as ISFP's shadow.. I've read that before too (in addition to ENTJ).
    Yes, we've had that discussion(s) before...

    INTP = Ti + Ne
    ISFP = Fi + Se

    = Direct contradiction in terms of which evaluation and perceptions are being used in the same directions.


    INTP = Ti + Ne + Si + Fe
    ENTJ = Te + Ni + Se + Fi

    = Same functions, opposing directions


    So ENTJ is the typical "shadow self" if we're disussing shadow theory comprised of functions 5-8. But ISFP is sort of the anti-INTP in terms of primary and secondary conflict.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Heh yeah.. that's what everyone been saying lately.


    INTP as ISFP's shadow.. I've read that before too (in addition to ENTJ).
    ENTJ isn't your shadow, imo, because it has all the same function attitudes as you, just in a different order.

    We can group the SFP and NTJ types together into the "FiNiSeTe" group, because those are the four types that share those attitudes.

    Each of the four (ESFP, ISFP, ENTJ, INTJ) represents one of those four functions (Fi, Ni, Se, Te) most strongly, while showing the other three in lesser proportions:

    ESFP = Se Fi Te Ni

    ISFP = Fi Se Ni Te

    ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi

    INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se


    As they grow and develop, all four of these types will start to resemble each other more and more closely. In youth, SFPs and NTJs will not understand each other well because they will not yet have developed their weaker functions, but with maturity comes wisdom--as we realize the value in our tertiary and inferior perspectives, we realize how much we can learn from our so-called "opposite" types and we begin to assimilate their positive qualities, as they do the same with us.

    Gradually, as we learn balance and move toward the center where we ultimately meet, it becomes clear that our so-called "opposites" are not really opposites at all.

    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #14
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Your shadows walk with you every day, beside you and around. All the things you despise in that other person? That is you, not them. Those are things you hide within yourself and refuse to acknowledge as being you.

    Think of yourself as a complex equation but rather than being part "real" and part "imaginary", each function is part ego and part shadow. Those bad behaviors you exhibit under stress or in pain-utterly tainted with shadows...except they feel like you or they look like flaws in the other person...it is all their fault, not yours....or you are horribly flawed or some such nonsense.

    It is hard to tease them out into separate functions as first..you cant see them as they are part of you, and second, they come and go as messy amorphous, partially evolved complexes that are mixes of different shadow functions.

  5. #15
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    ISFP-FiSeNiTe

    shadows-FeSiNeTi

    Kdude, you might sense the shadow Fe as a really strong sense of being terribly ashamed or feeling horribly flawed after making a mistake. In enfps you sometimes will see it make us feel as though there is something terribly flawed inside of us. I suggest it is an Fe social shame mechanism meant in Fe users to trigger internal reassement of actions, but in an Fi user it gets turned up to maximum and can trigger thoughts of suicide at its very worst..

    But only seen when under really bad stress or when in great pain??? But I dont know how that carries into Fi doms at all, so just my babbles if they are of some value. I could be totally wrong....

    My inferior Si makes me very rigid, thus in 6th place perhaps you would note a feeling of wanting to hide and not be seen by anyone or change anything...but yeah again, I dunno...just throwing ideas around...

  6. #16
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    inferior = 4th place, not 6th
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #17
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    inferior = 4th place, not 6th
    oh, I see, no i meant my fourth, my inferior, is his sixth function...Si.

    hmmm, I cant really contribute much more in theory, but I figured I'd rattle off what I have seen and considered might be shadows emergence...for what value it may contain.

    I have met many enfps online who recognize a distinct INFJ shadow. Ni forms a barrier that locks us away...almost a disassociation. Fe feels like a giant wall that shield us from the world....like an INFJ doorslam on the world. We can stay here for long periods of time-we will likely test as an INFP in this state.

    I have met many online entps who speak of having an INTJ shadow at some point...My entp friend says this was very distinct phase in her life. Sometimes she will say she has felt much like that INTJ shadow when under a great deal of stress and says she is using Te...but I explained to her that she looks very angry on the surface and comes across as almost yelling and being very frustrated when she does this..not the strong confident Te of a dom or aux.

    I met an ENTP-the dude with NPD who i thought for a very long time was the most douchebag INTJ I had ever met. He said very little, but when he did he was very arrogant and condecsending, endlessly pontificating but in a very rambly Ti way, and treated others around him in a very obnoxious manner. In retrospect he was "house MD" like. He would belittle those he did not agree with quite openly, almost angrily, not in the typical entp debate style. Later he sort of transitioned out of this into a more NeFe mode as he became more confident.

    Sometimes I wonder if the rage I see INTPs talk about having every so often..if that might be Ti being externalized into Te...and like the ENTPs...it comes across as very angry looking...and their Ti gets spewed everywhere, but is very unorganized...but I havent seen this in real life yet...just heard about it online...but maybe a Te shadow of some sort?

    ENFPs and ESFPs will Fi emo puke...but this externalization is kinda the way an Fe user would externalize emotion to generate a response in another Fe user...thus-like the above Ti example in INTPs, I wonder if this externalization of Fi emo vomit isnt a weird Fe shadow effect....

    ENFPs and ESFPs will also bitchslap the shit out of you if you back us in a corner. We funnel massive rage, identify your weakest most vulnerable spots, the flay you alive. Typically we are left horrified...WTF...The funny thing is that the ENFJs recognized this "bitchslap" as a planned thing they do to utterly sever ties on very rare occasions. ENFPs do it when backed into a corner, poked, then we explode. Some sort of weird Fe deployment...but was is interesting is that we are supplied an arsenal of cruel words...out of seemingly nowhere. I have questioned if this is an FeTi shadow complex of some sort....Ti being that precise library...It feels amazingly focused...like you have become an exceptionally fined tuned destructive force...

    INTJs belittle others when hurt or under stress but describe it as being very draining...just as ENFP describe the above events as being emo draining..I'd suggest their belittlement is use of Ti in a really nasty sarcastic way meant to hurt others. It is still very clumsy compared to what ENTPs can do...

    INTJs also wall others off....kinda like INFJs doorslam you. I dont know what this is, but it isnt a typical Te mode of direct confrontational addressing of the problem...seems kinda Fe-ish to me.

    I dunno about other types as I havent watched enough of them. These are all just things I see, record and then compile later on and identify some trending in, so none of it holds any value to the study of typology, only to perhaps a stray person who reads a chunk and identifies with it, and it may help them in some way.

    The trick with the shadows seems not to use them as an excuse..."Oh that was my shadow Ti that said that horrible thing to you" but instead by recognizing where it is coming from and why it is so out of place from your normal behavior...then take responsibility for it being "you" and being a part of yourself you need to understand and do something to address.

    you can choose to recognize the pattern and do something else as you note the shadow functions begin to emerge....

    or perhaps decide that really is an okay to work through the issue in this shadow way, but it just needs to be refined or developed. For me...with Te...sometimes just being able to attach a name to something that feels very bad-like the Fe shadow I mentioned above-gives me a way to work through it and understand that it will dissipate eventually.

    Once I could name the Fe shadow it went from lasting a week, to lasting a day to lasting less than five minutes for instance...

    but as I said, these are Ne rambles, so are of little theoretical value, only perhaps helpful as thoughts to mull over.....

  8. #18
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if the rage I see INTPs talk about having every so often..if that might be Ti being externalized into Te...and like the ENTPs...it comes across as very angry looking...and their Ti gets spewed everywhere, but is very unorganized...but I havent seen this in real life yet...just heard about it online...but maybe a Te shadow of some sort?
    It's usually attributed to Fe (which in four-process theory is treated as "the shadow"), but it's likely really demonic Fi. I know with me it is. The whole "passion" and all. One way it works, is that the shadows are what we project onto others. So we someone who appears to us as evil, or someone says something to us that seems evil (likely some moral judgment or something with at least some grain of truth we don't want to deal with) and all of this negative passion erupts, and we try to outdo them.
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  9. #19
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if the rage I see INTPs talk about having every so often..
    intps have rages? where? what? how?

  10. #20
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    I've always regarded the differance between shadow and concious functions as being reward/motivation. The shadow functions are impersonal and don't generate much of psychological reward, even when used successfully.

    In essence, the concious functions are "you " and the shadow functions not "you". However, for the weaker functions, the self is not entirely aware of the distinction. The primary and auxillary functions are thoroughly accepted into the self (even if the auxillary sometimes doesn't actually get used as much as it should) and the 7th and 8th functions are thoroughily rejected as not "you". This is why I regard them as the strongest - there is no confusion. Though the 7th and 8 th functions are non-motivational, the rejection of them means that you can think in these patterns without confusing yourself as to what you really want.

    For examople, I can use Si to help me bring my evil plots to fruition, but I'm basically using Si thoughts to find the safest way to turn the world on its head, and make it the way Ni desires.

    The trouble with functions 4 - 6 is that they are neither totally rejected nor accepted, creating a state of confusion as to what the person really wants. Much of develping the lower functions is about understanding what it is that you actually want out of life in these undeveloped area. Once the tertiary has been accepted, and the critical impersonalised, both become useful functions. Similarly for the 4th and 5th, except that it is harder still to do.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

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