• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Introversion/Extroversion

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
I keep on hearing about this inner world. I was reading that introverts can tell you exactly where their social roles end and their real self begins.

What is all that about?

giant_squid_1955Small.jpg
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
Can somebody explain introversion and extroversion as it relates to an object. I'd like to learn more about the way the individuals focus differs whether introverted or extroverted.

I read Lenore Thomson and Jung's Classics but I need something more and am hoping somebody throws out an idea that clarifies it for me.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
I keep on hearing about this inner world. I was reading that introverts can tell you exactly where their social roles end and their real self begins.

What is all that about?

giant_squid_1955Small.jpg

I like the picture.

I would have to say that introversion, metaphorically, would be more astute to the inner-part of that picture; before where the glass shield is.

Meanwhile, extraversion would be more astute to the outer-world, or where the octopi are and everything.

In regards to social rules - because the introversion is more astute to the inner world, it may neglect externals. One of these externals might be social rules. This might give an introvert more of an awareness about where that metaphorical glass/barrier is and how to keep the world at bay by using it.

So when you discuss this with an introvert, they may have a stronger sense of what separates their beliefs from what everybody else believes; though it's not a necessity.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
Interesting. I have a quick question for everyone before I go out. How would you describe introversion and extroversion in terms of a feedback loop?
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Interesting. I have a quick question for everyone before I go out. How would you describe introversion and extroversion in terms of a feedback loop?

Feedback loop? Well, there's something called "tertiary temptation", in which an individual starts to rely heavily on their tertiary, which bleeds into the dominant function sometimes even more so than the auxiliary.

This can create a "loop", where someone tends to refer more to their inner our outer world depending on what their dominant function is. With extraverts, they may neglect their inner world, and with introverts, they may neglect the outer world. This doesn't mean, however, that they are dysfunctional. Their point of reference simply doesn't coincide exactly with what their models would have you believe.
 

KDude

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
In regards to social rules - because the introversion is more astute to the inner world, it may neglect externals. One of these externals might be social rules. This might give an introvert more of an awareness about where that metaphorical glass/barrier is and how to keep the world at bay by using it.

Sometimes I haven't been good at more.. festive or practical social rules.. and then sometimes, I honestly think have a better take on morality in some contexts, where I might be able to elevate a situation. Not neglect it. I've gotten better at practical things though.. there was a time where I'd forget to do simple things, like say goodbye or shake hands. Until people kept telling me. Other things I haven't made sense of yet. Like I've never been to a funeral for example. I've upset people from that.. which is not my intent. I don't really want to explain it atm though.

Otherwise, I can be pretty corrective in traditional "value" type of ways. That goes pretty far back actually. Some kids used to call me "preacher" when I was younger. It didn't really win me over with anyone. But to me, their social rules weren't rules at all. They could veer on being neglectful, dangerous, mean, insulting.. whatever. Same can happen now. The social landscape is sometimes careless when it comes to rules, so I wouldn't even necessarily say it always has rules. Or rather, different types of groups have different rules. And I have my own constant inner take on that. Some people I might sync with, some I may be at odds with.
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
I regard the extroverted functions as being ways of relating to or dealing with the world at large. They create an urge to explore, experiment or evaluate the pragmatic utility of something.

The introverted are ways of understanding/assessing the world. The create an urge to evaluate the reasons for doing something or the subjective worth of a thing.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I regard the extroverted functions as being ways of relating to or dealing with the world at large. They create an urge to explore, experiment or evaluate the pragmatic utility of something.

The introverted are ways of understanding/assessing the world. The create an urge to evaluate the reasons for doing something or the subjective worth of a thing.

This is a very good explanation, imo.

Introversion would pick one aspect of the picture and focus intently on it until it understands everything about it in depth. Quality over quantity.

Extroversion would look at the entire picture at once and try to understand as many different aspects of it as possible, but necessarily in less depth. Quantity over quality.

I will use a quote from one of the most brilliant ISFPs of all time, the venerable Mr. Bruce Lee, to illustrate this point:

Bruce Lee said:
I fear not the man who has practiced a thousand kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

In this quote Mr. Lee is clearly extolling the virtues of introversion. Extroversion would prompt us to practice a thousand kicks once each; introversion would prompt us to practice one kick a thousand times.
 

JoSunshine

That's my name biotch!
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
659
MBTI Type
eNfj
Enneagram
2
An introvert told me that he has an inner-self and an outer-self and he is very clear on which is which. He says his inner-self tells his outer-self how to behave in order to be socially appropriate. Basically he sends his "representative" to social situations acting at the behest of his inner-self.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
that seems a tiny bit nuts.
 

JoSunshine

That's my name biotch!
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
659
MBTI Type
eNfj
Enneagram
2
that seems a tiny bit nuts.

It seemed a tiny bit nuts to me too when I heard it, but when I thought about it not quite so much.

I think that many extroverts do the same thing but it just comes naturally...we call it social skills. We read a person or situation and respond appropriately without thinking. He has to think about it...kind of like how they say introverts will think about what they are going to say to someone before having a conversation and extroverts wing it.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think that many extroverts do the same thing but it just comes naturally...we call it social skills. We read a person or situation and respond appropriately without thinking. He has to think about it...kind of like how they say introverts will think about what they are going to say to someone before having a conversation and extroverts wing it.

Well, yeah -- that's pretty much "introvert" textbook as per Keirsey on how introverts work, especially with sending the auxiliary extrovert function out to "meet the people" while the introverted primary directs things from within.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
but...the disconnect is nuts...is that just the language or does it really feel that way?
 

KDude

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
that seems a tiny bit nuts.

It does.. when put that way. o_O

I don't have a "representative" really. I'm kind of the same introvert in front of people. The things I have adapted... like little things I mentioned.. shaking hands or something....They just came about because I started feeling bad. If enough friends go "Yo, why you leaving me hanging??" you question yourself. It's not like I have another self that adapted to it, while the inner self is still ignoring people. There are other social rules I just can't see myself doing though, and end up dealing with the consequences or awkwardness. I don't have another persona doing them.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Can somebody explain introversion and extroversion as it relates to an object. I'd like to learn more about the way the individuals focus differs whether introverted or extroverted.

I read Lenore Thomson and Jung's Classics but I need something more and am hoping somebody throws out an idea that clarifies it for me.

people arent gonna like my example of Se vs Si. but Si is internal. Lets take going around the corner fast in a car. Listening to the engine rev, hearing the sound as you go around the corner is Si. Se is noticing how the wheels are slipping, noticing how much traction/and or loss of traction you have, feeling how the car is responding to the road to gauge how much or how little gas to give it. Focusing on the "inside" of the engine is Si, focusing on the world around you is Se. Si becomes one with the engine, Se becomes one with the environment. Both have crazy control control and understanding, but one is internal and one is external. This will go against most peoples idea of Si vs Se though so take what you will from it. This is just an example that came to mind of extroverted vs introverted.
 

KDude

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
people arent gonna like my example of Se vs Si. but Si is internal. Lets take going around the corner fast in a car. Listening to the engine rev, hearing the sound as you go around the corner is Si. Se is noticing how the wheels are slipping, noticing how much traction/and or loss of traction you have, feeling how the car is responding to the road to gauge how much or how little gas to give it. Focusing on the "inside" of the engine is Si, focusing on the world around you is Se. Si becomes one with the engine, Se becomes one with the environment. Both have crazy control control and understanding, but one is internal and one is external. This will go against most peoples idea of Si vs Se though so take what you will from it. This is just an example that came to mind of extroverted vs introverted.

Hmm, maybe I do have a Se perspective. I always wanted to know who the hell that guy was who set speed limits.. I think I could do his job. Or at times, I knew exactly why he suggested what was on the sign, by testing the environment myself and seeing how the suggestion was spot on (btw we're not just talking about driving, right? ;) ). That all said, I'm still Fi and in my own world in another way.
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
people arent gonna like my example of Se vs Si. but Si is internal. Lets take going around the corner fast in a car. Listening to the engine rev, hearing the sound as you go around the corner is Si. Se is feeling how the car is responding to the road to gauge how much or how little gas to give it. Focusing on the "inside" of the engine is Si, focusing on the world around you is Se. Si becomes one with the engine, Se becomes one with the environment. Both have crazy control control and understanding, but one is internal and one is external. This will go against most peoples idea of Si vs Se though so take what you will from it. This is just an example that came to mind of extroverted vs introverted.

Bad example. Ehh. I was going to fix it but then you said you knew it was wrong. Read more about Si and Se. Si is comparing and stabilizing the environment. Se is adjusting yourself to the environment. The Se person is more focused on reacting to the moment while driving, wading through changes. The Si person stands back and is deliberative about the driving.

I'm plenty aware that I have my own world that is catered to my personal interests, a deeply intricate system of what's important and interesting to me. I can vouch for that world being different from how I interact with the external world, which is logical, decisive, structured and competitive.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Hmm, maybe I do have a Se perspective. I always wanted to know who the hell that guy was who set speed limits.. I think I could do his job. Or at times, I knew exactly why he suggested what was on the sign, by testing the environment myself and seeing how the suggestion was spot on (btw we're not just talking about driving, right? ;) ). That all said, I'm still Fi and in my own world in another way.

No its just the easiest example I could come up with. You must be normal if you know exactly why he suggested it...lol....or if they used the lowest common denominator when setting it then...:huh: Its basically responding to the physical and/or concrete environment as it continuosly changes. To expand it out further using my driving example. Its also getting to the point where you can feel how the car is interacting with the external world so well that you open your senses up to even more information which is the cars around you, the people walking. You no longer need to focus on what the car is gonna do, how its gonna respond, that becomes second nature, you focus on the external environment and let go of the inner details because its like second nature. You end up zooming further and further out, instead of becoming more and more focused. You see the puddle and you already know how the car is gonna respond and its like just the sight causes you to be prepared and respond while you have already moved onto something else.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Bad example. Ehh. I was going to fix it but then you said you knew it was wrong. Read more about Si and Se. Si is comparing and stabilizing the environment. Se is adjusting yourself to the environment. The Se person is more focused on reacting to the moment while driving, wading through changes. The Si person stands back and is deliberative about the driving.

I'm plenty aware that I have my own world that is catered to my personal interests, a deeply intricate system of what's important and interesting to me. I can vouch for that world being different from how I interact with the external world, which is logical, decisive, structured and competitive.

I never said it was bad, that is your judgement, I simply stated that others would not agree, which you supported and verified. Look at my initial example and notice how an Si user loses focus of the surrounding environment and focuses inward...this is why Si needs the environment stable. So they dont have to pay attention externally.

MBTI says that an I loses energy when they go into E mode. It really seems like a person loses energy when they switch from that functions I mode to the same functions E mode. I lose energy when I switch into Si, but nothing when in Se mode.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
but...the disconnect is nuts...is that just the language or does it really feel that way?

Actually the disconnect is what interested me. I don't feel much of a disconnect, yet I hear about it. I get a sense it is me expressing myself on my environment as well as working with it. But no disconnect. It was that other thread on Fi and going deeper that got me thinking about it.
 
Top