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  1. #11
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    it's interesting tho...i mean i get the idea that an extravert draws energy from outside of our self so we're placing value...out there...rather than in here...in a sense...but...not really...i mean...fi is about the individual...the core...so i'm confused...

    but sorry not the point...what are you asking? if the extravert values outside objects more? hmm...damn...i don't know. :/
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #12
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    hmm...it makes some sense...but like what chloe said how does that work for an extraverted fi person.
    By extraverted do you mean ENFP? In the general description Fi is said to devalue the object (as it is introverted) and then the said object is a catalyst for the feelings that one gets from looking at the object. This would add the perceiving aspect, whether it be S or N.

  3. #13
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    it's interesting tho...i mean i get the idea that an extravert draws energy from outside of our self so we're placing value...out there...rather than in here...in a sense...but...not really...i mean...fi is about the individual...the core...so i'm confused...

    but sorry not the point...what are you asking? if the extravert values outside objects more? hmm...damn...i don't know. :/
    It's weird though because it's not even necessarily that the Extravert draws energy from the outer world, but just about a specific object in particular. Technically you can be introverted and extroverted about half of everything. It's the value that you put into each object specifically (these are things in the outer world), but the fluidity that this brings to the surface is just interesting because it means that to one object you might be an INFP and to others you are ENFP.

    I also believe that I will contain all my thoughts about this book (to it's completion and beyond) here so if you feel like checking up as I go, this is where you'll find it.

  4. #14
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    By extraverted do you mean ENFP? In the general description Fi is said to devalue the object (as it is introverted) and then the said object is a catalyst for the feelings that one gets from looking at the object. This would add the perceiving aspect, whether it be S or N.
    yeah no i know it's a introverted function. i'm sorry i'm not feeling very sharp today but i'm just trying to see if a statement such as that fits..
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    yeah no i know it's a introverted function. i'm sorry i'm not feeling very sharp today but i'm just trying to see if a statement such as that fits..
    I don't think it would because no type that is extraverted could lead with an introverted function.

  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    ^I think some extroverts might be highly balanced though, where it'd seem like an enfp was leading with fi. maybe that's the reason why many enps for example take a lot of time outs and don't always relate to what's happening around them. might be less common to find an esp depend on their auxiliary as much - the world is a playground for them. and they're generally good with facts and details to keep moving, stay in the moment, don't offer ideas that get shunned as much.. it all adds up to a person who can keep on relating to what's outside themselves, speak it's language so to speak, and not have any reason to introspect and fall back on introverted functions/behavior. when they find themselves alone, they end up going nuts. enps don't. they seem to like solitude..like they've grown up being more used to it.

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    hmmm....can the object be a person?
    only for rappers
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    only for rappers
    And most men?

    His explanation of an extrovert is defined as the thinking of how the object relates to you and the introverted as relating an object to yourself.
    Okay, I think I've got a handle on this. The explanation of the extrovert thinking (and the difference between that and the introvert thinking) represents why when most people hear the word "extrovert" they think "self centered attention whore" . At least that's my experience with rather prejudiced introverts but regardless of that, I think the way of relating to the object is what makes people have that perception about extroverts.
    The extrovert sees this object and wonders where it fits in their life in a way that orders them first. The introvert see this object and wonder how to relate it to themselves.

    Or not. Dammit, that slight difference in word structure in the explanation paints the picture. It makes it clear to me but I can't articulate it or explain but I know what it means. I can feel what it means but I can't explain it.
    Last edited by Vamp; 08-09-2010 at 04:53 AM. Reason: Poor Te and Ti
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

  9. #19
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    ^^Ha, I was thinking the opposite-- that Jung's definition seems to peg the introvert as self-centered!

    I like the way Chloe puts it, though - that it's about how you define yourself.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Typically, with extroverts, things start externally, ping the extrovert, and the energy is directed back toward the external. This is also why extroverts often are described as thinking and feeling "on the outside" rather than the inside. The internal world exists to inform the outer.

    With introverts, the process is reversed. Things are generated in the internal world, are shot out in the environment like radar, then ping back to the introvert, and the energy is used to impact the internal world. The focus is typically the internal world. The external world exists to inform the inner.

    This is why extreme introverts are typically internalized (sort of like a tree that goes deep but has no foliage) and extreme extroverts seem to be all foliage but no core. Most people, though aren't extreme and have some degree of both.

    Look at Se and Si as an example -- maybe the infamous chair example. Se sees the chair just as it is. Maybe that image of the chair impacts Ti/Fi, but this energy immediate pings back out into the environment and is focused on the chair. The actual image of the chair is the focus of the energy, and the person responds to it. This is also called an "objective" response because the object is external and thus accessible to all in the same form.

    Meanwhile, Si typically already has an image of a chair inside. Perception is aimed outward, sees the chair, and data about the chair pings back inside, and the introvert is focused on comparing it to the internal image of the chair. The result might be to decide the external chair is not a good chair, or it could be to update the internal image of the chair to a better one, or something else; but the response is "subjective" because it all happens inside. The focus is to somehow impact the interior world of the introvert.

    Extroverts tend to focus on improving/fixing the exterior world, the exterior world directs them, and energy returns to the exterior world; with introverts, the focus is the interior world, the interior world directs what energy they send out, and the energy is taken back into the interior world.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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