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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    And that anyone who doesn't is a retard.
    But how can you tell when the shoe fits
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #272
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    But how can you tell when the shoe fits
    Ready to change that x in your type to an I yet?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #273
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    And for some reason they think everyone else does the same thing for the same reasons.
    poki, you are very funny.

  4. #274
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    alas, i am afraid Sim may be right about the INTJs:


  5. #275
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    ^ TRUTH!

    It's called Ni delusion and paranoia.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #276
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think you're becoming a bit too intrigued with something that is merely a metaphor, and seems similar to how you experience Ne.

    I don't "become the object."

    I just think about it, a lot. I "play with it" in my head. There's a huge amount of experimentation that goes on without even having to set up a real life lab apparatus.

    The reason it becomes accurate is that I still occasionally look at the real-life object, double-checking my conclusions. If I'm wrong about something, I absorb that information and include it in my internal model. If I'm right about something, then I start digging deeper.

    All those times you see an INTJ staring into space, doing nothing ... we're juggling these internal models. It could be deep philosophical or scientific thoughts, or it could be a puzzle, or a computer game, or a book, or a movie (and the movie does NOT end like it does in real life, we're making it "better").

    The longer we juggle these thoughts, the more we "just know" things about our topic of interest.

    The more we "just know," the more we are able to make eerily accurate predictions with respect to our topic of interest.

    Where Z's metaphor has a great deal of accuracy is that we essentially absorb all there is to know about something, such that the "thing" exists within us with a very high degree of accuracy. When making a prediction, I don't try to "figure it out" because I've already spent hours or days or years thinking about it: instead, I just let the "thing" do what it normally does in my head. I don't worry about what it should or shouldn't do, it just does it, on its own. So in that abstract sense, I am the thing, but really I don't lose my ego to it. It exists within me, and I animate it, but when I watch the animation, it feels like it's the thing, it doesn't feel like me.

    When you read about INTJs having multiple streams of thought in their heads, or watching movies, or entertaining themselves with thought games in their heads, this is what we're doing.

    In Robert Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land," he introduces the Martian word "grok." It has since entered into popular usage. It means to really truly and fully understand something. It brings in a bit of what Z was saying, in that it means to understand so fully that the observer becomes part of the observed. In the book, Michael (the stranger) eventually comes to his own understanding of God: that which groks is God, leading to his heretical statement of "Thou art God."

    [So, in that limited context, when you run into INTJs who think they're God, they're right!]
    A few things, you'e one of the few posters on this site whom when I come across a post of, I tend to read in full.

    1.) Great and insightful post.

    2.) A very close INTJ friend of mine recently asked me if I read "Stranger in a Strange Land", no I haven't but the title intrigues me... a lot.

    3.) NOT ALL INTJS ARE THE SAME.

    3a.) As in, some are more healthy than others, some are SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than others, some are more INTROVERTED than others.

    4.) You don't see yourself well, you're definitely a weirdo. , and I could imagine how an average person would perceive you, lol! But you are RIDICULOUSLY INTELLIGENT, and you exhibit a BUTTLOAD of Ni Te and Fi. Most INTJs on this site just don't compare to you, I know some who do, but they are still young.

    5.) I wish Zara was more like you sometimes...... oh well.

    6.) I wonder how life experience, circumstance, AND GENETIC predispositions, i.e. intelligence, introvertedness, etc. affect the INTJ.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #277
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I suspect that you have far better developed and far more influential Fi than most INTJs.
    uumlau has the advantage of age.

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Most INTJs on this site just don't compare to you, I know some who do, but they are still young.
    @bold: exactly.

    I too relish uumlau's posts, but it's wise not to place him or anyone on a pedestal. I doubt he would enjoy being there.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #278
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    No. They're secretive because they recognize the strategic value in withholding information. If they talk too much they give away how much they know or don't know; if they say nothing and simply let others assume from their silence that they know everything, they never have to reveal exactly how much they do or don't know, which leaves them with the upper hand. That way they know more about how much you know than you know about how much they know (phew!)

    They've just very cognizant of not giving away more information than strategically necessary. They like to be one step ahead of everyone.

    Amusingly, when you actually correctly call out their motivations, they do everything they can to discredit your claims because they're threatened by the idea of a loud-mouthed extrovert blabbing their secret plans to everybody.

    This, I think, is one of the biggest reasons INTJs dislike sharing their deepest feelings and ideas with extroverts, especially EPs. They don't want the whole world to hear about it!
    BINGO!!!!!!!

    Uumlau excluding, and some other INTJs, but you just hit the nail on the head muthafucka!!!!



    Seriously.

    I've witnessed/observed this first hand with one INTJ in particular, and I find it pathetic, lacking of integrity and loathsome!

    UGH!!!

    But, seriously sim, bravo, someone with da Ne-Ti skillz needed to drop this TRUTH BOMB!

    So, thank you!



    Man I think I get why Z is always complaining about Ne doms wandering off topic
    That's what Nicoley does on her alone time, this does not affect Z in the least.

    My IXTP would gladly go down intertube thought rides with me, when I'm with Z, I just go to the other room, or in my own space and do what I gotta do.



    Hahah I've had MDMA interventions with I_T_ friends and hearing them finally express emotions for the first time in their lives is really a lot of fun. (I have a close INTP friend who did exactly the same thing!)



    I agree it's awesome when they finally open up. I take it as a big sign of respect and trust if an introvert is willing to be very open with you.
    Very true.

    however, they don't really care about helping you or making you happy if they don't feel some sort of familial or cultural connection to you. Fe will do anything for you--as long as you're part of "the group." If you're not, sorry--Fe has no responsibility toward you.
    How dare I forget about this glaringly ridiculous fact!!!

    Absofuckinglutely!!!

    Spot on, Sim, I kinda have a problem with SFJs, for this exact reason because my Fi values find this quality to be absolutely ABHORRENT!

    Some Fe users (especially NFJs) consider the entirety of humanity to be part of "the group" and thus will pretty much do anything to help anybody, but this seems to be the exception rather than the rule.
    Hmm, NFJs are quite different than their SFJ counterparts, I will need to mull this over, but it feels kinda true, or rather I think you're onto something with this idea/theory.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sim, sorry I didn't respond to your epic post, I was/am just in a hurry/impatient and selfishly got out what I needed to get out. Sorry.

    I will reread your post again later, and time and willingness :P permitting I will respond to the very many other thoughts you raised within your post.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    ...this does not affect Z in the least.

  10. #280
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What a verbose rebuttal, lemme get out the thesaurus to come up with my rebut. :rolli:
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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