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  1. #241
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post

    So, N-users all, the connections you make, are they created by you or do they exist prior to you and you tap into them?


    (Will the i users say they create and the e users say they discover?)

    I can't say for sure, but it seems that I'm perceiving connections that exist "out there", rather than creating them.

    Of course, the only reason I lean in that direction is because my intuition tells me the connections exist "out there".

    That may sound overly simplistic, but I think it IS fairly simple. I don't know if it can be explained any better than that.

    I'm an ENFP. It's EXTRAVERTED INTUITION.


    I'd love to hear from someone who has a more technical explanation for it, though.





    Also, in order to keep this post from being a complete derail, I should add something about Sim's definition of Ni.

    Though I think it seriously lacks tact, I don't actually disagree with it at all.

    I think it's pretty spot on.

    Just my opinion.
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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    I can't say for sure, but it seems that I'm perceiving connections that exist "out there", rather than creating them.

    Of course, the only reason I lean in that direction is because my intuition tells me the connections exist "out there".

    That may sound overly simplistic, but I think it IS fairly simple. I don't know if it can be explained any better than that.

    I'm an ENFP. It's EXTRAVERTED INTUITION.


    I'd love to hear from someone who has a more technical explanation for it, though.





    Also, in order to keep this post from being a complete derail, I should add something about Sim's definition of Ni.

    Though I think it seriously lacks tact, I don't actually disagree with it at all.

    I think it's pretty spot on.

    Just my opinion.
    Extraverted Intuition

    Uses the inner understanding in the interests of the objective situation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regards the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary and aims to escape by means of some sweeping change in the objective situation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is wholly directed upon outer objects, searching for emerging possibilities, and will sacrifice all else for such possibilities when found.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finds self-expression natural and easy.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finds its greatest value in the promotion and initiation of new enterprises.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Requires the development of balancing judgment not only for the criticism and evaluation of the intuitive enthusiasms but also to hold it to the completion of its various activities.


    I hope this isn't too technical.

    In my own words, I would call it the motivation of seeking novelty in the objective situation. This can give it the appearance of being creative or future oriented.

  3. #243
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post

    Extraverted Intuition

    Uses the inner understanding in the interests of the objective situation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regards the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary and aims to escape by means of some sweeping change in the objective situation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is wholly directed upon outer objects, searching for emerging possibilities, and will sacrifice all else for such possibilities when found.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finds self-expression natural and easy.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finds its greatest value in the promotion and initiation of new enterprises.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Requires the development of balancing judgment not only for the criticism and evaluation of the intuitive enthusiasms but also to hold it to the completion of its various activities.
    Hmmm.....interesting.

    But I don't know what to make of it.

    What does it tell us, in regard to Kalach's question?

    Here's Kalach's question again:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post

    So, N-users all, the connections you make, are they created by you or do they exist prior to you and you tap into them?
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


  4. #244
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Didnt really read the thread, but saw this post and I completely agree about Ne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    I can't say for sure, but it seems that I'm perceiving connections that exist "out there", rather than creating them.

    Of course, the only reason I lean in that direction is because my intuition tells me the connections exist "out there".

    That may sound overly simplistic, but I think it IS fairly simple. I don't know if it can be explained any better than that.

    I'm an ENFP. It's EXTRAVERTED INTUITION.


    I'd love to hear from someone who has a more technical explanation for it, though.
    I explained it very similar in thread about how I use Ne in math (though i didnt know about Ne then), and how to understand math better: it's from iINTPc, 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by chloe
    To understand math you need to realize nothing is there because it's invented, because someone thought "hey, it'd be so nice if i invent trigonometric functions so people can learn them the way i invented it", no.. it's just already is there, as it is.
    so since the math already is there, understanding is there too.
    Dont go and learn one by one... try to perceive it.
    Basically this is all I ever did while doing math.. Just look out there and see what's already there. Like stepping in some endless room and just looking around, spinning around yourself and your horizont never really ends... Ne!

  5. #245
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    I would say that the latter sentiment "exist prior to you tapping into them" is the more extraverted approach, as extraversion prefers that which is "out there", already in existence, while introversion is derived and in some ways created by the subject.

    This does not mean that extraverted intuition impedes us from "creating our own connections", because extraverted intuitives are quite capable of perceiving connections between objects in the outside world. Rather, the patterns perceived are synthesized by the introverted intuitive, giving it a kind of originality that may be contrary to external influences.

  6. #246
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Extraverted Intuition

    Uses the inner understanding in the interests of the objective situation.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regards the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary and aims to escape by means of some sweeping change in the objective situation..
    "Prison" sounds like an extreme word though.. I just have to point that out. Instead of shunning it's surroundings, or even looking inwardly (it is extraverted perception, after all), it could take everything about surroundings into account, combine it with a few outside ideas, unify it's impressions of things - and generate a new thing to do.. maybe it could even apply to slightly mundane things at times, but in a way to enhance your current situation into something more enjoyable (rather than a prison to escape from per se...I think any inclination to diss surroundings is almost always introverted judging and maybe Si.. not Ne. Ne knows how to unify if necessary). For instance (pardon this lame example btw), maybe you're with a group of friends and everyone wants to go to a restaurant. Some of the girls want to dance too.. You remember one of them had a craving for fried oysters, others are down for tropical drinks, and just the other day, this dude you met was playing live music at a seafood restaurant not too far from where you're at..so that might be cool too. And so on and so forth. It all comes into place and you've got a good idea for a night out. You've just enhanced experiences by thinking contextually. Ne doesn't necessarily need to be some sweeping, existential change to things. It could, but to define it as such would be inaccurate, I think?

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    "Prison" sounds like an extreme word though.. I just have to point that out. Instead of shunning it's surroundings, or even looking inwardly (it is extraverted perception, after all), it could take everything about surroundings into account, combine it with a few outside ideas, unify it's impressions of things - and generate a new thing to do.. maybe it could even apply to slightly mundane things at times, but in a way to enhance your current situation into something more enjoyable (rather than a prison to escape from per se...I think any inclination to diss surroundings is almost always introverted judging and maybe Si.. not Ne. Ne knows how to unify if necessary). For instance (pardon this lame example btw), maybe you're with a group of friends and everyone wants to go to a restaurant. Some of the girls want to dance too.. You remember one of them had a craving for fried oysters, others are down for tropical drinks, and just the other day, this dude you met was playing live music at a seafood restaurant not too far from where you're at..so that might be cool too. And so on and so forth. It all comes into place and you've got a good idea for a night out. You've just enhanced experiences by thinking contextually. Ne doesn't necessarily need to be some sweeping, existential change to things. It could, but to define it as such would be inaccurate, I think?
    The bold sounds like it could be Se and Ni.

    Not that that's a bad idea, but it's difficult to look at functional definitions without giving them your own bias. I have this problem too, when thinking about Ti, Ni, or other functions that I don't prefer. I see them through the cloud of my own preferences without knowing how they truly work for someone who might prefer them more.

    Introverted Intuition

    Uses the objective situation in the interests of the inner understanding.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regards the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary and aims to escape through some sweeping change in the subjective understanding of the objective situation.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Receives its impetus from outer objects but is never arrested by external possibilities, being occupied rather by searching out new angles for viewing and understanding life.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finds self-expression difficult.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finds it greatest value lies in the interpretation of life and then promotion of understanding.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Requires the development of balancing judgment not only for the criticism and evaluation of intuitive understanding but to enable it to impart its visions to others and bring them to practical usefulness in the world.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Listen anyway. Really listen.

    If they're right, but your knowledge has more depth, you can slowly share the depth.

    If they're right, but in their slow way eventually get to depths you don't already know, you might learn something.

    If they're wrong, you can gently show them that they're wrong, by sharing your ideas.

    When you really listen to others, they can tell that you've done so. They will return the favor.

    The "rejecting input" habit of xNTJs is not as efficient as it would seem at first glance. It seems that if you already know something, it's a waste of time listening to it again, right? But really, there are layers and layers of knowledge, as you already well know, as an INTJ. As an example, I learned the elements of salsa dancing in about 2-3 months, in the "level 1" classes, but for many months and years later, I was still going to the "level 1" classes, in addition to levels 2 and 3 and other kinds of lessons. In particular, every new "level 1" instructor had new concepts that I had not fully understood before, which were not being taught in levels 2 or 3, because the concepts were so "basic."

    Sometimes, of course, you have to reject input because the time to assimilate it simply does not exist, and you have a job to get done. Most of the time, however, it's detrimental.
    This is S. Sapienne and I love you, seriously, in a platonic true sense, I do.

    Your wisdom, patience and humility are so, so uplifting and illuminating.


  9. #249
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    The bold sounds like it could be Se and Ni.

    Not that that's a bad idea, but it's difficult to look at functional definitions without giving them your own bias. .
    I guess all I'm trying to say is that Ne is able to brainstorm well and think contextually, and combine varying elements to broaden a situation (rather than discriminate, or throw out things while it's play). Whether it's in intellectual matters, or in the workplace, or in giving advice to a friend, or even in the mundane, there can be a positive/affirming angle to it that both takes what it sees into account and also broadens the situation, rather than escapes. By itself it's not shooting down anything, but percieving possibilities. Anyone utilizing it is simply looking and glossing over all the little options on what's possible. And even when Ne glosses over, it's not judging.. it's just capturing the essense of things, shortcuts the details, thrives in context. There is no inner understanding at work other than this ability to get the "gist" of things at a glance and processing how they may be connected.

    If there's more discrimination or dissastification at work in someone, then it's serving the needs a judging function first..(and that's why some of us are introverts. Whether I myself am ISFP or INFP, I don't gravitate towards the extroverted percieving side of myself either, so none of my example above is how I experience Ne or Se really. I'm probably not all that different than you. The world's a friggin prison. ).

  10. #250
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    How would you distinguish between a PD and natural maturity? From another perspective, what ENTP under 20 isnt somewhat NPD like at times? Also, how do you "develop Ti"? How would other aux functions be developed in other types to prevent full blown PDs?
    Well considering that a PD is generally a negative thing and natural maturity is a positive thing, I would think they'd be pretty easy to distinguish.

    I suspect that what you intended to ask was how I distinguish a PD from natural immaturity, in which case the answer is not very clear cut.

    An "official" diagnosis of a PD just means that a psychological professional felt the symptoms were bad enough that they were significantly interfering with normal functioning. Some people manage to live and cope with PDs; others have symptoms mild enough to avoid diagnosis, but imho most personality disorders are just extreme preferences for certain types of perspectives to the near exclusion of others that might balance them out.

    Aux functions are best developed by putting yourself into situations that require you to use them to succeed. Unfortunately, this doesn't guarantee that you'll develop them; since we are talking about grasping a new perspective and not just learning a new skill, there is nothing we can do to guarantee development of any function; however, trying to open our minds to the positive aspects of our less developed functions by practicing skills associated with them and by listening to people who are strong in those perspectives is a good start.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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