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  1. #41
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Default Identical twins & MBTI type

    Merged with previous Identical Twins and Type thread

    Two questions and some thinking about them.
    Are there any research of identical twins and their MBTI type?
    Is persons MBTI type innate?

    If identical twins MBTI types are different, then that would mean that MBTI type is not innate. That would mean that environment has the most effect on MBTI type (or would it?). So environment would shape a person to what s/he is. That would mean that anybody could be of any type. But that's not true. My children are living example of that. They are all born different even if they have the same mother & father (even if the living conditions, family situation etc. are different when each child is born).

    If identical twins MBTI types are the same that would proof that MBTI type is innate because the twins have the same genome. That would mean that the real MBTI type wouldn't change during your life and that everybody would have only one true type (which they wouldn't necessarily recognize because of the pressure from the people/society around them).

    It is possible that some of the MBTI functions are innate and some are affected by the environment. Or rather, we are born with a certain abilities and the environment has some effect on the outcome (our personality).

    What do you wise people say about this?
    My reasoning is usually quite imperfect + has some mistakes, I readily admit it.
    Last edited by proteanmix; 03-12-2008 at 06:42 AM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    Two questions and some thinking about them.
    Are there any research of identical twins and their MBTI type?
    Is persons MBTI type innate?

    If identical twins MBTI types are different, then that would mean that MBTI type is not innate. That would mean that environment has the most effect on MBTI type (or would it?). So environment would shape a person to what s/he is. That would mean that anybody could be of any type. But that's not true. My children are living example of that. They are all born different even if they have the same mother & father (even if the living conditions, family situation etc. are different when each child is born).

    If identical twins MBTI types are the same that would proof that MBTI type is innate because the twins have the same genome. That would mean that the real MBTI type wouldn't change during your life and that everybody would have only one true type (which they wouldn't necessarily recognize because of the pressure from the people/society around them).

    It is possible that some of the MBTI functions are innate and some are affected by the environment. Or rather, we are born with a certain abilities and the environment has some effect on the outcome (our personality).

    What do you wise people say about this?
    My reasoning is usually quite imperfect + has some mistakes, I readily admit it.
    You can ask identical twins to do the cognitive processes test.
    Do not look at the MBTI epithet.

  3. #43
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    Two questions and some thinking about them.
    Are there any research of identical twins and their MBTI type?
    Is persons MBTI type innate?
    Actually, I suspect MBTI is developed moreso as an adaptation to one's environment. Following this approach, I suspect similarity/dissimilarity in type flowers from simple exposure (and subsequent internalization) to matters of observable social conduct.

    Biochemistry arms us with innate behavioral tendencies, but seems less influential than immediate experience. I reason as such because I've noticed that MBTI appears malleable - almost negotiable - towards the individual goals of certain folks (even a few of our peers).

    Whether this trend is purely stylistic seems debatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    If identical twins MBTI types are different, then that would mean that MBTI type is not innate.
    It might just mean that we lack the sophistication to track the genetic footprints of the MBTI (assuming they exist). Ultimately our precision is limited to our instruments - blunt in many ways though they are.

    As an aside to my first post, heritability of biological distinction is not necessarily a guaranteed transaction between identical twins. Male Pattern Baldness is an example of this general principle and further cultivates an approach that favors aesthetics over chemical makeup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    That would mean that environment has the most effect on MBTI type (or would it?). So environment would shape a person to what s/he is. That would mean that anybody could be of any type. But that's not true. My children are living example of that. They are all born different even if they have the same mother & father (even if the living conditions, family situation etc. are different when each child is born).
    Although parentage remained the same, I suspect the likelihood of static environmental stimuli is fairly slim.

    Is it possible their diversity comes as a result of dynamic change in their socio-familial structure? If so, could it be that the enrichment of this model serves as their immediate expression of personality?

    What's more, although I'm certain you take every conceivable measure to guarantee a uniform distribution of love/affection, children can often harbor radically different viewpoints when recollecting childhood experiences.

    I can personally attest to this, as my intellectual puzzle-pieces often form into drastically-different arrangements than do my brother's recollection of the same (approximate) events. This nonconformity adds positive girth towards the development of accents exclusive to one's personality.

    Finally, I think the probability for nuanced perspectives increases exponentially as the child is introduced to extra-familial relationships (school; friends; television; media; sports; etc...) that work to further individualize the personality of the child around social variables.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #44
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    aren't ladyjaye and pinkpiranha identical twins?

  5. #45
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Are Type Preferences Inborn or Learned?

    The page includes a list of studys about the subject but there are no links to actual study results.

  6. #46
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    Well, it is a little more complicated than all this... since categorizing people into 16 types doesn't really mean they are the "same." Just as there are various ways to classify books in a library or families of animals, the types themselves are still just one framework by which to view things.

    Which leads me to say that i's possible that people who are technically in the same MBTI type [i.e., constantly test in one type] might actually be more similar to people in other types if you observe them than to people at the other "extreme" of their own type (!).

    The preference for particular perception or judging functions can be heavily influenced by environment and/or situational needs.

    And you also have the tendency of identical twins to differentiate somewhat in personality if they are in proximity to each other, because they both need a separate identity. So they play off each other like two planets establishing an orbit around the same sun.

    I think a better approach is to test variables (such as extroversion) that seem to have a direct basis in the biology. Extroversion seems to be tied directly to the sensitivity of one's nervous system, resulting in a need for lots of stimulation to feel things or only a little stimulation to feel the exact same level of things. That is a trait that seems far less dependent on environment (although environment can put pressures on the expression of it) and can be traced better.

    As far as identical twins having different MBTI types, it seems to me that's the way it is. I just don't have source handy, but I thought that was what I've read in the past. But you can ask the few twin pairings here. For a specific pair, I think Aelan is an identical twin... and she and her sister classify themselves differently in the MBTI.

    Variations in families seem to me to suggest that MBTI type is not hereditary in the sense we think of it. (My genetic children, INTP and ESFP, were born to an INTP and ISFJ parent. And my parents are ISFJ and ESTP and my sister is ISFJ.) So it's not as easy as a recessive gene scenario, where type is easily tracked as an MBTI chunk. But I think heredity -- the spin of the random wheel of billions/trillions of possible combinations -- obviously impacts what genes a child can receive. Where there are clumps of the same type in the family, it seems to be more parental influence that bends the child in a certain direction rather than the same type per se.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  7. #47
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    Two questions and some thinking about them.
    Are there any research of identical twins and their MBTI type?
    Is persons MBTI type innate?

    If identical twins MBTI types are different, then that would mean that MBTI type is not innate. That would mean that environment has the most effect on MBTI type (or would it?). So environment would shape a person to what s/he is. That would mean that anybody could be of any type. But that's not true. My children are living example of that. They are all born different even if they have the same mother & father (even if the living conditions, family situation etc. are different when each child is born).

    If identical twins MBTI types are the same that would proof that MBTI type is innate because the twins have the same genome. That would mean that the real MBTI type wouldn't change during your life and that everybody would have only one true type (which they wouldn't necessarily recognize because of the pressure from the people/society around them).

    It is possible that some of the MBTI functions are innate and some are affected by the environment. Or rather, we are born with a certain abilities and the environment has some effect on the outcome (our personality).

    What do you wise people say about this?
    My reasoning is usually quite imperfect + has some mistakes, I readily admit it.
    I have long suspected that some personality tendencies must be in our DNA. Babies are born with a definite temperament, from strong-willed to compliant and everything in between. So while our environment plays a part, I think some of it is genetic.

    Oops. Sorry Jennifer. Didn't mean to differ with you. I guess we were both typing at the same time.

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Aelan and her twin are here though I don't know if they're identical. One is an ENTP and the other is an INTP.

    I believe there has been another thread on this subject. It may have some information in it for you.

  9. #49
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Aelan/Elf and Jaye/Me are both identical sets.

    I've wondered about the MBTI in relation to twins myself, as I see "splits" in the typing clusters. Like Aelan (ENTP) and Elf (INTP) versus Jaye (ENFP) and Pink (eNFJ).

    I know another identical set (almost mirror-image women) who are eNFP and INTP. We puzzled over what divergences occur at what points. I've wondered if mirror twins are more likely to be closer in type, in the way the egg divides in the womb.

    I know a set of fraternals (which is essentially two babies born at the same time who may not share any more than 50% of their DNA) who are ESTP and ISFJ. I would expect such a variance in fraternals.
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  10. #50
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Aelan/Elf and Jaye/Me are both identical sets.

    I've wondered about the MBTI in relation to twins myself, as I see "splits" in the typing clusters. Like Aelan (ENTP) and Elf (INTP) versus Jaye (ENFP) and Pink (eNFJ).

    I know another identical set (almost mirror-image women) who are eNFP and INTP. We puzzled over what divergences occur at what points. I've wondered if mirror twins are more likely to be closer in type, in the way the egg divides in the womb.
    Hmm - that certainly does seem to be the pattern, at least with the small set of data we're talking about. I was friends with a guy who had an identical twin brother, and from what I could tell, they followed the same pattern. My friend was definitely an ENTP (I don't commit to typing folks often, but he was really an easy case ), and his brother, between the one time I met him and hearing about him, seemed like a xNTJ (I'd say ENTJ was likely - he was sort of quiet, but also out of his element in a group of his brother's longtime friends).

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I know a set of fraternals (which is essentially two babies born at the same time who may not share any more than 50% of their DNA) who are ESTP and ISFJ. I would expect such a variance in fraternals.
    Hmm - that brings up an interesting point (I'm a fraternal twin)... I wonder if fraternal twins are *less* likely to share personality traits than non-twin siblings? Does not having the same genetic base that identical twins do, but having the twin "I need to differentiate myself" pressure push them in different directions? I'm an INxP, my sister's an ESFJ. A sample size of two fraternal twin sets says absolutely nothing, but it's an interesting idea, anyway.

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