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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Mmmm. Curing cancer. That would be really nice.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    I took the step II about 2.5 years ago. My results are posted here.

    At the time I came up as an INTP with no out-of-preference facets.

    Upon thinking about it more, I think I should be closer on T/F than the results indicated.

    I don't think I'm quite as extreme in my logical and reasonable scores. I think I'm slightly more tender than tough or maybe in the middle. I also think I'm in the middle on questioning/accomodating and somewhat more accepting than critical.

    Regarding the other facets, they seem mostly accurate. I think I might be more realistic, systematic, and pressure prompted than the scores indicate. I also don't think I'm quite as extreme on reflective. Other than that seems pretty spot-on.
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  3. #33
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    To copy Jennifer, I'll estimate what mine would be:

    EXTROVERSION/INTROVERSION
    Initiating ........ Receiving 8
    1 Expressive ..... Contained
    2 Gregarious ..... Intimate
    Active ........... Reflective 7
    Enthusiastic ... Quiet 8

    SENSING/INTUITION
    Concrete ....... Abstract 8
    Realistic ......... Imaginative 8
    Practical ........ Conceptual 8
    Experiential .... Theoretical 6
    Traditional ...... Original 9

    THINKING/FEELING
    6 Logical ........... Empathetic
    3 Reasonable ..... Compassionate
    Questioning .... Accommodating 4
    Critical ........... Accepting 6
    Tough ............ Tender 9

    JUDGING/PERCEIVING
    2 Systematic ....... Casual
    Planful ............. Open-ended 8
    Early-starting ... Pressure-prompted 10
    Scheduled ........ Spontaneous 7
    Methodical ....... Emergent 5


    I wonder about the T/F division because there are quite a few people like me that are conflicted about it. I wonder if it's a INXP issue too - as confusion around it seems to be common among us. And looking at the results @SuchIrony @Jennifer and @Eric B it makes me wonder. It would be interesting to compare what sort of patterns are forming. If there were more conflicted Fs it would be even better. @OrangeAppled's input would be good, but she's not around much these days.
    I'm not sure how I'd gauge these qualities when pitting them against each other....
    The easiest ones are E/I & J/P (if I put aside the contrivance & hyper-awareness of being a 4 & how that affects "P-ness"), and if I saw the questions I assume N/S would be easy to choose also. It's quite clear I'm IxxP. As usual, my reaction to the T/F is "why the false dichotomies?!" and "why is Feeling so Fe?!".

    For example... Most situations which call for empathy don't call for dry logic. And certainly, in a situation where people are involved, empathy can help you get the whole picture so you can reason on a solution anyway. And situations which call for dry logic don't often call for empathy, so it's not like I often must choose between the two. I'm not sure why they are "pitted" against each other. Same with reasonable & compassionate - these are at odds?! To me, it's unreasonable to not be compassionate. My compassion is principled, not necessarily emotionally driven. Misplaced compassion is not a sign of being a "Feeler", IMO (I'd argue it's more likely a sign of being P-dom...).

    There are many times in life where I am perceived as "tough" by others, when I feel I am acting on a moral principle, one which is very much a Feeling valuation. I may be tough or tender, critical or acceptable, depending on my feeling about a situation. In day to day life, I'm easy-going & accommodating mainly cuz it's easy and I don't care enough to rock the boat. This is not Feeling; I'm quite sure it's being Pe-aux & NOT having my Feeling stirred from hiding.

    Ultimately, I do prefer to be the Feeling options, because I "wear them" much better, whereas the Thinking options make me look ugly (which makes me think it's because I have inferior Te). The F qualities don't necessarily come more easily for me though, because those are outward behaviors, and my feeling is introverted. I think this is why S/N & J/P questions are much easier for me to answer; my Ne is visible in my behavior, whereas Fi may not be (more so "implied" by my obvious introversion).

    I notice IxxPs have the hardest time with T/F, which seems odd since we're J-doms, but I think it's because T/F is often described in Te/Fe terms. Since those are our inferiors, we may have strong responses to those too, and we may see their effect in our minds, albeit often very negative since it's in inferior form. There have been times when inferior Te defined me as much as Fi, because I was in a sort of psychological stranglehold where I wouldn't let the Ne run free . This had little to do with being "logical", but I certainly wasn't displaying F qualities; when I'm reasonable, then it's Fi with a proper outlet.


    --------

    Okay here's my stab at it:

    EXTROVERSION/INTROVERSION
    Initiating ........ Receiving 9
    Expressive ..... Contained 8
    Gregarious ..... Intimate 9
    Active ........... Reflective 7
    Enthusiastic ... Quiet 7

    SENSING/INTUITION
    Concrete ....... Abstract 6
    Realistic ......... Imaginative 9
    Practical ........ Conceptual 9
    Experiential .... Theoretical 8
    Traditional ...... Original 7

    THINKING/FEELING
    Logical ........... 1 Empathetic ??????
    1 Reasonable ..... Compassionate ??????
    Questioning .... 1 Accommodating ?????
    Critical ........... Accepting 4
    Tough ............ Tender 3

    JUDGING/PERCEIVING
    Systematic ....... Casual 7
    Planful ............. Open-ended 4
    Early-starting ... Pressure-prompted 6
    Scheduled ........ Spontaneous 8
    Methodical ....... Emergent 9
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  4. #34
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Yeah, reading the descriptions, I don't really like it because of the T/F divide. I would be a T under this perspective, but I think that's because this is a division between Te and Fe, Fi is nowhere contemplated.
    I think its wrong to divide MBTI into letters, in doesnt work like that.

    My idea is streghtened by the example of Seymour, who's an INFP, so he/she uses Fi as a dominant function, but tested very low on F, and much lower than all the other letters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Here's mine:



    About the only interesting thing there is the out-of-preference "Reasonable" on the thinking/feeling sub-scales (and the neutral logical/empathetic).

    Otherwise, it's all pretty straight-forward.

    I used discoveryourpersonality.com, as well (a couple/few years ago).

  5. #35
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Yeah, reading the descriptions, I don't really like it because of the T/F divide. I would be a T under this perspective, but I think that's because this is a division between Te and Fe, Fi is nowhere contemplated.
    I think its wrong to divide MBTI into letters, in doesnt work like that.

    My idea is streghtened by the example of Seymour, who's an INFP, so he/she uses Fi as a dominant function, but tested very low on F, and much lower than all the other letters.

    Well, empirically speaking there's almost no evidence that dominate functions are actually consistently dominate, that the dichotomies are actually dichotomous, or that other predictions of type dynamics are accurate. There's far more evidence that people's strength of preference falls on a continuum (as it does with the Big Five), and that the effects of two (occasionally three) individual preferences play a much bigger role in any given area than whole type does, etc.

    You are right, though, that Step II doesn't really represent functions (which in a less type-dynamics oriented model can be seen as the effects of interactions between J/P and either S/N or T/F), and instead breaks things down in a more Big Five sub-scale-ish fashion. Still interesting, though, especially as it points out areas in which you may be atypical for your type.

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    For example... Most situations which call for empathy don't call for dry logic. And certainly, in a situation where people are involved, empathy can help you get the whole picture so you can reason on a solution anyway. And situations which call for dry logic don't often call for empathy, so it's not like I often must choose between the two. I'm not sure why they are "pitted" against each other. Same with reasonable & compassionate - these are at odds?! To me, it's unreasonable to not be compassionate. My compassion is principled, not necessarily emotionally driven. Misplaced compassion is not a sign of being a "Feeler", IMO (I'd argue it's more likely a sign of being P-dom...).

    There are many times in life where I am perceived as "tough" by others, when I feel I am acting on a moral principle, one which is very much a Feeling valuation. I may be tough or tender, critical or acceptable, depending on my feeling about a situation. In day to day life, I'm easy-going & accommodating mainly cuz it's easy and I don't care enough to rock the boat. This is not Feeling; I'm quite sure it's being Pe-aux & NOT having my Feeling stirred from hiding.

    Ultimately, I do prefer to be the Feeling options, because I "wear them" much better, whereas the Thinking options make me look ugly (which makes me think it's because I have inferior Te). The F qualities don't necessarily come more easily for me though, because those are outward behaviors, and my feeling is introverted. I think this is why S/N & J/P questions are much easier for me to answer; my Ne is visible in my behavior, whereas Fi may not be (more so "implied" by my obvious introversion).
    You always raise good points.

    I think, just to address the tough/tender spectrum, for me personally I parse it as bottom line. I've had to spend a lot of time hanging with F types, and since I take pride in my chameleon abilities, I've always been bothered because at core I can't seem to really be tender in the same way they can. I can generally empathize with people, and on some occasions I even feel strongly about their situation (whether good or bad); but when push comes to shove, if I don't just give up and withdraw to avoid getting embroiled, I have to give the gentle but unflexing push, rather than being able to overlook something. There's a bottom line that there's a particular truth involved that needs to be confronted, and if I do not eventually bring it up, I either have to pull out or it will come out in the course of interaction. I can't just let it go. I tend to step back and analyze human matters like a system, even if I can empathize deeply with the people involved, and when there's a problem with the system, I feel like it needs to be addressed at some point, as a priority. I've had FP and FJ friends who seem more inclined to focus on the connection than the assessment, and I'd be jealous because I couldn't do that or possess the same poise as them while doing it. They actually didn't seem agitated by the flaw I could perceive. I dunno.

    But I wouldn't consider "Tough" to be one of my all-encompassing traits. I'm very much in that middle area.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    A Phlegmatic INFP and (likely) a Supine INTP! (One tougher than the typical type, and the other more sensitive than the typical type). They almost meet in the middle. (Being that INTP would usually go with Phlegmatic, and INFP is more characteristically like Supine).
    The true Phlegmatic is really very "inbetween", which would go along with being so unsure in most of the T/F facets.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I notice IxxPs have the hardest time with T/F, which seems odd since we're J-doms, but I think it's because T/F is often described in Te/Fe terms. Since those are our inferiors, we may have strong responses to those too, and we may see their effect in our minds, albeit often very negative since it's in inferior form. There have been times when inferior Te defined me as much as Fi, because I was in a sort of psychological stranglehold where I wouldn't let the Ne run free . This had little to do with being "logical", but I certainly wasn't displaying F qualities; when I'm reasonable, then it's Fi with a proper outlet.
    It's likely from introverted judgment being so "deep", and harder to really decipher than extraverted functions. And then being dominant just makes them so integral to the ego's worldview that you don't even notice them.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  8. #38
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    took the step 2 while in college... results were, as usual, inconsistent
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #39
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I took the step II about 2.5 years ago. My results are posted here.
    It is surprising how T-leaning your results are. Did you find it hard to answer the T/F questions or did it seem like relatively clear-cut choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm not sure how I'd gauge these qualities when pitting them against each other....
    The easiest ones are E/I & J/P (if I put aside the contrivance & hyper-awareness of being a 4 & how that affects "P-ness"), and if I saw the questions I assume N/S would be easy to choose also. It's quite clear I'm IxxP. As usual, my reaction to the T/F is "why the false dichotomies?!" and "why is Feeling so Fe?!".

    For example... Most situations which call for empathy don't call for dry logic. And certainly, in a situation where people are involved, empathy can help you get the whole picture so you can reason on a solution anyway. And situations which call for dry logic don't often call for empathy, so it's not like I often must choose between the two. I'm not sure why they are "pitted" against each other. Same with reasonable & compassionate - these are at odds?! To me, it's unreasonable to not be compassionate. My compassion is principled, not necessarily emotionally driven. Misplaced compassion is not a sign of being a "Feeler", IMO (I'd argue it's more likely a sign of being P-dom...).
    EXACTLY. So well said.

    It's that same old "Justice vs. Mercy" stuff I've never been comfortable with - as if objective principles and compassion are mutually exclusive. Why can't anyone grasp that compassion can be rational?

    BTW you did read the added details on the first page? I don't get the impression you did - not that it dramatically clarifies anything. If I bolded what mostly applies to me and underlined words that somewhat apply, it would look like this:


    LOGICAL (Impersonal, seek impartiality, objective analysis) vs EMPATHETIC (Personal, seek harmony, central values)

    REASONABLE (Truthful, cause and effect, apply principles) vs COMPASSIONATE (Tactful, sympathetic, loyal)

    QUESTIONING (Precise, challenging, want discussion) vs ACCOMODATING (Approving, agreeable, want harmony)

    CRITICAL (Skeptical, want proof, critique) vs ACCEPTING (Tolerant, trusting, give praise)

    TOUGH (Firm, tough-minded, ends-oriented) vs TENDER (Gentle, tender-hearted, means-oriented)
    Even then, I still feel like I'm not being entirely truthful. I feel very ambivalent about a lot of those words. I can see the divisions they're attempt to draw between them and think they're on the right track - I just don't think the diction is totally accurate. "Trusting", for example, is very complex, even in the context they place it in. If it means "gives the benefit of the doubt" or "doesn't need strong proof to form an opinion" then I will go with that, but if they mean "not prone to questioning claims" or "takes what others say as fact", then I'm not so sure.

    Ultimately, I do prefer to be the Feeling options, because I "wear them" much better, whereas the Thinking options make me look ugly (which makes me think it's because I have inferior Te). The F qualities don't necessarily come more easily for me though, because those are outward behaviors, and my feeling is introverted. I think this is why S/N & J/P questions are much easier for me to answer; my Ne is visible in my behavior, whereas Fi may not be (more so "implied" by my obvious introversion).
    I know what you mean. I'm still pretty certain I'm a Feeler in spite of the test confusion. My resulting, external behaviour often seems like that of Thinker but it is internally motivated by (what I know in myself to be) Feeling based decision making. It makes sense to me but it is still hard to reconcile this in relation to MBTI tests.

    I notice IxxPs have the hardest time with T/F, which seems odd since we're J-doms, but I think it's because T/F is often described in Te/Fe terms. Since those are our inferiors, we may have strong responses to those too, and we may see their effect in our minds, albeit often very negative since it's in inferior form. There have been times when inferior Te defined me as much as Fi, because I was in a sort of psychological stranglehold where I wouldn't let the Ne run free . This had little to do with being "logical", but I certainly wasn't displaying F qualities; when I'm reasonable, then it's Fi with a proper outlet.
    That's a good observation - they do seem to lean towards Te/Fe.

    I don't find that there are many Ji friendly descriptions out there. I think it can be hard for many Ji-doms to make sense of how what differentiates Ti from Fi. Once you leave the stereotypes behind, the list of criteria for each can sound very similar - especially when the functions are used in a healthy manner. I see my Judgement process as highly logical and driven by impartial reasoning, but then probably many Ti-doms see theirs as highly compassionate and harmony-driven.

    In some ways I think of the Judging functions on a vague sort of spectrum - with Ti and Fi being close to the middle (and therefore more easily confused):

    THINKING <-----|-----> FEELING
    .....Te.........Ti....|....Fi.........Fe.....
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #40
    Senior Member valentine's Avatar
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    Step II and the corresponding interpertation really helped me figure out why the typing I get on most tests is wrong.

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