Asperger's Syndrome and MBTI type.

[Little_Sticks]

...
I'd really like to know the ratio of genuine Asperger's sufferers to maladjusted geeks who self-diagnose and just use it as an excuse.

I ask you if there is really much of a difference? And if you say yes and come up with some clever argument, if you think about how much you often think you know about yourself or other people and end up being wrong, can you really be sure? Just because you think you know other people better than most with Asperger's Syndrome, does that mean you do? It's a lot more bull-shitty complicated then you might think.

They use a criteria to determine it. It mostly consists of many types of failed interaction with other people over the course of many years and an inability to deal with it easily like most would. Kind of like how a soldier might have trouble adjusting to being a civilian after many years of fighting in a war, although war trauma is different, but the element of failure, loneliness, and fear is in its basic forms pretty much the same. Some are pedantic, some are not. Maybe because they learned they get less shit if they shut the *&^* up and just talk to themselves in their heads. Some say they are smart, some say they aren't smart. Some have learned enough how to act normal that nobody would assume that in their heads they think "I hate talking to everyone" because they know they have to pretend and it's very tiring not being able to explain why you are uncomfortable to someone who doesn't have the slightest clue and will take it personally because of the huge difference.

I'd like to know the ratio of how smart a human is to how much bullshit they can get people to believe. You know, kind of like how some 'smart genius scientist' (whatever that means) comes up with a cure for 'depression or all different types of mental illnesses' (whatever that means) and then when someone shows evidence of that being false, pulls a 180 and says "Oh by the way, this is still a new science. We thought we had it, but we were wrong." That's some good stuff. Nice to know there are always people who think 'good intentions and present sacrifices' justify doing more harm than good to a person.

Outside of MBTI as a loose theory to help individuals interact with those they know very little about, this makes me hate psychology. It's all complete conjecture. Ask multiple types of people from different ethnicities and countries what their problems are and how they deal with them and what they think of them and there is always a different answer. Psychology should be looked at with great suspicion.

I know TL;DR, wahhh wahhh wahhh Charlie Brown.

Okay bai.

 

[wren]

One difference that has been stable in my observation between those with autism and aspergers is echolalia. Echolalia is where someone repeats what they have heard either immediately or later. This must be a distinguishing feature of autism.

Once I heard that while both groups, autism and aspergers, have difficulty in the social interaction realm, autistic individuals don't care about acquiring social relations but those with aspergers do. Anyone hear about this?

In my opinion I think these categories are being overused at present and fear they will become meaningless, just like the dyslexia label did in the 80s. Remember 'minimally brain damaged'? I'm pretty sure that's what I am, but look what good this knowledge did for me.

 

[Grungemouse]

I personally know a male ISFJ with Aspergers syndrome. He must be high-functioning (if that's the correct term?) because he is social, joining his university clubs and stuff. Honestly, you wouldn't know he had it. In fact I didn't realise until he told me. But once I knew, certain characteristics in his behaviour stood out to me- taking everything very literally, rambling on about something for ages, etc. But if you didn't know about it, he could just as easily be seen as "slightly eccentric". He's a nice guy. He still hasn't moved on after his girlfriend broke up with him two years ago. Her name is still in his IM screen name. Extreme use of Si?

I know an INTJ with autism, and she's less adjusted as he is. Plus another INTJ and an INTP. All three of them are very blunt and make horrendous social slip-ups. It's fairly obvious in their behaviour. In fact I suspected the INTJ was autistic before I was told.

 

[Elfboy]

I think asperger's might effect the connection between different parts of the frontal lobe, thus making the preference for N or S more extreme than in neurotypicals (given how calling them NTs would be rather confusing, it's best if I spell it out). in all honesty, a lot of aspie traits just sound like really hardcore INXXs. such as
1) intense disliking of hiercharchy
2) novel ways of solving problems
3) intense interest in one or a few hobbies
4) no desire or need to belong to a group
5) confusion about how most people operate
6) difficulty picking up social cues/facial expressions/body language
7) non politically correct views that they have no hesitancy expressing openly
8) extreme disliking of rules/authority
9) usually very high IQ
10) find small talk boring and useless
11) being considered "weird" or "not normal"
12) often proud of being "not normal" (I know I am, normal is boring as hell =P)
13) trouble with motor skills/coordination

I have all of these traits as an ambiverted NFP but I don't know if I'm an aspie or not. I'm certainly more like an aspie than a neurotypical SJ or SP.

 

[Evguenia]

I think asperger's might effect the connection between different parts of the frontal lobe, thus making the preference for N or S more extreme than in neurotypicals (given how calling them NTs would be rather confusing, it's best if I spell it out). in all honesty, a lot of aspie traits just sound like really hardcore INXXs. such as
1) intense disliking of hiercharchy
2) novel ways of solving problems
3) intense interest in one or a few hobbies
4) no desire or need to belong to a group
5) confusion about how most people operate
6) difficulty picking up social cues/facial expressions/body language
7) non politically correct views that they have no hesitancy expressing openly
8) extreme disliking of rules/authority
9) usually very high IQ
10) find small talk boring and useless
11) being considered "weird" or "not normal"
12) often proud of being "not normal" (I know I am, normal is boring as hell =P)
13) trouble with motor skills/coordination

I have all of these traits as an ambiverted NFP but I don't know if I'm an aspie or not. I'm certainly more like an aspie than a neurotypical SJ or SP.

What you have just said is not a description of a disability, more like a description of a personality type. Asperger's is, above everything, a sensory processing disorder. Extreme aversions/sensitivities to certain textures/sounds are a major part of it. The majority of people do not have these things to an extent where it interferes with their life. Same thing with obsessive interests - these are usually also very extreme, to the point where it is difficult to discuss anything other than the obsessive interest. Everyone has autistic traits based on the description of the traits. Anyone can post on the Internet and say that they have this and that symptom. What matters, though, is the extent to which one has these symptoms. When you meet someone who actually has Asperger's in real life, you will immediately realize that there is something standoffish about them. Even those who have it mild have learning difficulties as well as difficulties holding a regular back-and-forth conversation. And the degree of each individual symptom varies from person to person. And by interfering with life, I mean that the afflicted individual would not be capable of doing something that is an essential task that everyone else is capable of performing.

 

[Such Irony]

I never got an official diagnosis or anything but I can tell you that I had just about all the signs listed in the DSM criteria as a child.

 

[Ivy]

Is it true that they're taking asperger's out of the DSM-V? I had heard this but people still seem to be using it pretty freely. When my son was diagnosed last year I seem to recall them saying something like "in years past we probably would have put him in the Asperger's category but they are phasing that out" or something. It is all kind of a blur at this point.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

If this Asperger's Syndrome message board I post at is representative of us "Aspies" as a whole the most common type is INTJ followed by INTP and ISTJ.

Jung Myers typology test poll - General Autism Discussion

My son has Asperger's Syndrome and tested very definitely an ISFP. Mind you, he doesn't spend much time on forums - at 35 he indulges his passions of music and motorbikes by re-establishing the Perth chapter of the Moto Guzzi riders association and being a mentor to young people and hobby musicians through a successful Open-Mike muso's club in which he was a founding member.

He is perhaps one of the most compassionate people I know because of his experiences growing up with Asperger's and his type but still sees things as black and white rather than in shades of grey.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

Is it true that they're taking asperger's out of the DSM-V? I had heard this but people still seem to be using it pretty freely. When my son was diagnosed last year I seem to recall them saying something like "in years past we probably would have put him in the Asperger's category but they are phasing that out" or something. It is all kind of a blur at this point.

I've not heard this Ivy but my son was diagnosed in his 20's and I have only taught 2 people with Asperger's in the past 10 years so there may have been changes. I have heard Asperger's referred to in conversation recently as a broad spectrum Autism disorder or some such.

All I know is that Simon's diagnosis would have been better in his school years so he didn't have to go through the bullying he endured so I know what it is like as a parent of an Asperger's child .

 

[Ivy]

I am very concerned as my son enters "real" school this year about bullying and exclusion. He is a very unusual kid- extremely smart but not very accessible to his peers. He was in pre-K last year and many of the kids liked him, but were mystified by his repetitive behaviors and such. Fortunately he'll have someone visiting him in class daily to help facilitate his social skills.

I just wish everyone could see the boy that I see.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

I know exactly how you feel!!

Si was savant like in music and had an amazing perfect pitch when he was little. He has a photographic memory literally. His literality was a big problem - he wasn't rude when someone asked a sarcastic question but was deemed so when he answered literally.

My dad: "how were your meatballs Simon?" Si: "I didn't like them, they were awful Grandad!"

He had (and still has) a natural affinity for animals - they love him and he loves them.

I wept when in high school my son's report said that he would give the shirt off his back to his worst enemy if he felt they needed it more than he did". This was so pure but not a survivable attribute - yet he did and is an incredibly compassionate man.

You are fortunate your son will have help from day one

 

[Evguenia]

Is it true that they're taking asperger's out of the DSM-V? I had heard this but people still seem to be using it pretty freely. When my son was diagnosed last year I seem to recall them saying something like "in years past we probably would have put him in the Asperger's category but they are phasing that out" or something. It is all kind of a blur at this point.

No, they are not phasing it out completely. It is just going to go under a broader category of autistic disorder. The criteria are somewhat harder to meet, which means that those who have the mildest forms of Asperger's may lose their diagnosis. This whole criteria merging seems like a good idea to me, as many people who would fit the criteria for HFA get diagnosed as AS or vice-versa. The distinction between AS and HFA is not very clear.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

No, they are not phasing it out completely. It is just going to go under a broader category of autistic disorder. The criteria are somewhat harder to meet, which means that those who have the mildest forms of Asperger's may lose their diagnosis. This whole criteria merging seems like a good idea to me, as many people who would fit the criteria for HFA get diagnosed as AS or vice-versa. The distinction between AS and HFA is not very clear.

Thanks for this info Evguenia - I will follow up here too as I am likely to at some stage have more students with HFA.

 

[Ivy]

No, they are not phasing it out completely. It is just going to go under a broader category of autistic disorder. The criteria are somewhat harder to meet, which means that those who have the mildest forms of Asperger's may lose their diagnosis. This whole criteria merging seems like a good idea to me, as many people who would fit the criteria for HFA get diagnosed as AS or vice-versa. The distinction between AS and HFA is not very clear.

Yeah, that is what I meant. I didn't mean that those who are currently diagnosed with Asperger's would no longer have a diagnosis- but that it would not be Asperger's, it would be autism. As I understand it, Asperger's will not appear at all in the DSM-V. That's why the folks at TEACCH did not diagnose my son with it- they gave him a diagnosis of autism, so that nothing would change for us when the DSM-V comes out (and so he can be identified as autistic in the school system in the meantime).

Edit: same goes for PDD-NOS which is the dx a few other children we know currently have. I agree that subsuming both Asperger's and PDD-NOS into the umbrella of Autism simplifies things a lot.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

I would guess that the distribution of Aspergers would most likely be

INTP
INTJ
ENTP
ISTX
and the rest. It seems like an NT thing, mostly I, and the very specific areas of personal interest makes me think P.

 

[Such Irony]

the very specific areas of personal interest makes me think P.

Why P?

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

Why P?

Well because Aspergers children often have very specific and often pointless interests (the Wikipedia page said as an example they may be very interested in camera models and brands but have no interest in photography at all). This kind of thing is very XNTP I think. A J would mostly have interests which could serve a clear defineable purpose in society.

On a side note, I think I may have low level Aspergers.

 

[Savage Idealist]

Originally posted by mrsherlockholmes
I would guess that the distribution of Aspergers would most likely be

INTP
INTJ
ENTP
ISTX
and the rest. It seems like an NT thing, mostly I, and the very specific areas of personal interest makes me think P.

Is it possible that due to limited social skills that those with Aspergers merely seem to be introverted/thinking by appearance? I'm an INFP and I have asperger's syndrome, but ever since I've first come across MBTI I've always thought of myself as an INTP. But recently after re-analyzing discriptions of different types I discovered that I was always an INFP, could having aspergers been a reason for my miscalcualtion of my type?

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

Is it possible that due to limited social skills that those with Aspergers merely seem to be introverted/thinking by appearance? I'm an INFP and I have asperger's syndrome, but ever since I've first come across MBTI I've always thought of myself as an INTP. But recently after re-analyzing discriptions of different types I discovered that I was always an INFP, could having aspergers been a reason for my miscalcualtion of my type?

I think that's possible. I would have probably put INFP next in the list, but I wasn't sure. I think it is far more common among thinking types, but not necessarily unique. I have a few times thought myself to be an F, but it turned out my Fi is mostly just Ti that I was mistaking. I'm not sure whether it would make you look more T or what.

 

[skylights]

question for INTJ aspies, what do you guys think about your tert Fi?

i know a really sweet kid with asperger's. i don't think he lacks empathy. i do think he has a problem communicating empathy, however. and by "problem" i simply mean "doesn't do it like most other people".

good luck for your son, Ivy