My half-brother was diagnosed with Asperger's at about 11 years old and he's now almost 24. Following lengthy discussion, we're both strongly inclined to peg him as an ENFJ. He's been flying all over the country since he was 17 speaking, writing, and educating others about his condition. He's now a special education teacher to children like himself in Houston. He's also helped co-author a book about Asperger's. Here's one of many videos you can find of him online doing his thing if you'd like a point of reference: Asperger's Syndrome | AutismSpot (Needless to say, I'm a very proud big sister.) Do a search on James Williams Asperger's syndrome and you'll find scads of material.
Fe is widely considered to be absent in Aspies, but my brother's is alive and well. It's worth noting that he runs very hot/cold in his ability to relate with others. He seems to be either all-present or all-absent and it takes some getting used to. He's also very emotionally demonstrative with family, but hides this well with outsiders by chatting/rambling incessantly on a litany of familiarized topics. He can speak to an audience with remarkable ease, but get him one-on-one (especially with a girl) and he looks like a deer in the headlights.
We just found out my nephew has Asperger's as well, but I'm hard pressed to guess his type given his age and in light of the Asperger's. Although we haven't openly discussed our suspicions with her; my father, brothers, and I suspect that our paternal grandmother is also an Aspie and she is most likely an ISFP. She damn near LIVES in her garden. She's a human encyclopedia on plants. I'm pretty sure she prefers flowers to people. She can also stitch and cook just about anything:, she has an eye for beautiful things. Don't ask her about food, flowers, or the Bible unless you've got plenty of time to spare. She's very warm and affectionate with friends, family, and fellow church-members. But, she gets very nervous and babbles awkwardly with strangers in any situation not involving the above.
Aspies can easily be demonstrative IME, but they seem to have unspoken rules about how and when this is allowed to manifest.
Grandmother aspie? = ISFP?
Father = INTP
step-brother = ISTP
middle Brother (and father of Aspie) = EnTP Aspie little brother = ENFJ
baby brother - INtP Aspie Nephew = ENTP?
I'm big sis' INFJ.
Make of that what you will.
Added Note: (Also, if I had to wager a guess, I'd bet money that my aspie brother's functions are a bit skewed from the standard... meaning rather than Fe > Ni > Se > Ti --he is probably Fe > Ni > Ti > Se.)
Last edited by iwakar; 10-01-2010 at 09:44 AM.
Chester, R. G. (2006, December). Asperger's syndrome and psychological type. Journal of Psychological Type, 66(12), 114-137
It describes how misdiagnosis is often children with introverted thinking whose Fe parents think there must be something wrong with them...
My brother (ETP) got it into my mother's (ESFJ) head that I had something along the autistic spectrum. Luckily my dad is also an introverted thinking type, so he offered some perspective to set them straight. "I was exactly like that at her age..."
I've been trying to figure out what exact effect Asperger's has on type.
On the first type discussion list I joined, where people insisted I was "using" a lot of Te and Fi, and I had already figured INTP as my best fit, I wondered if AS might have something to do with it.
Part of the problem was just a very narrow, distorted view of the functions, with any enthusiasm, valuing, and even lack of Fe "skills" seen as indicating "Fi". The main flaws right there, terms like "skills" and "use".
Still, in studying more in depth the concept of the anima now, I can see one connection.
For my type, on one hand, Fe is inferior, yet on the other hand, since the inferior ties to the anima, it is a very vulnerable area, and one connected with "otherness".
So combine that with the AS symptoms of thinking differently from everyone else, and then having even lower empathy and ability to connect than normal inferior Feeling, and catching a lot of flack from people about it; then you develop a very bruised anima, and this also triggers its shadow, which is "demon" Fi! (Which is also the "right brain alternative" that comes up under severe stress anyway).
You tend to depend on acceptance from others to feel good about yourself. (Then, the TJ's around me, who associate self-worth with Fi are telling me self-acceptance first, then everyone else will respect you. But that seemed totally backwards).
Yet you just get the opposite from people, and feel horrible in life.
You then get a chip on your shoulder, and become passionate about standing up for your rights. This then makes you look like a stereotypical NFP. Yet it's really a more destructive force than the NFP's mature Feeling.
I'm also wondering, since AS spectrum brains are said to be simply be "wired" differently, if this sometimes puts one in touch with more of the unconscious (and hence, the shadow); most likely, the collective, perhaps. Our sense of stuff like fairness is often connected to the collective unconscious, and these are the sorts of things Aspies often demand harder than the average person.
The stuff we think is really not all that far out; it's just data (ideas, patterns, details, factoids, etc) most people ignore. Yet for them to exist (and even to have possibly been created by mankind), they must have some sort of meaning or purpose, as known by those who created or analyzed it, though ignored by most everyone else.
I've always made symbolic connections of things, which I am now realizing would be in an Ni kind of way. This was something I was fairly conscious of, but it is obviously not preferred as a primary form of perception like Ne. For one thing, it ultimately was not something I saw as really needing to be taken seriously as truly relevent. Now, I can see it as not so weird or peculiar.
(I still find myself trying to identify stuff as shadow, but then find it is really more ties to AS, but then, it is basically just an exaggerated version of the stuff associated with a normal shadow dynamic).
So while people can look at AS traits and pick out all sorts of things associated with different functions, it might really be just a greater consciousness of all of them, but in a non-typical way that just seems weird to neurotypicals.
which is why my INTP family members drive me crazy sometimes.
and why i probably drive them quite crazy too
interesting. i'd be curious to run this by my mom and see if she sees that in her work (she works with special needs kids). some people say high-functioning and asperger are the same thing... would you be more inclined to say that there is also high-functioning S-type correlated autism that does not manifest as asperger?
A crazy family all around. A reminder of my childhood.
A high-functioning S-Type correlating autism that does not manifest as asperger:
1. My late father.
2. My mother.
One person attended my grandmother's funeral in Finland. My mother.
There were no invitation cards sent.
She said: I bury my mother.
One person attended my father's funeral in Spain. My mother.
There were no invitation cards sent.
She said: I bury my husband.
I've actually been accused of having Asperger's many times before, based mostly on my lack of empathy for people and general inability to recognize obvious social cues. The real problem with that 'diagnosis', is that it's not that I lack empathy/compassion/etc... I just choose not to display it and keep many of my feelings to myself. And I think that recognizing some social cues just comes with experience interacting with people... Something that I have preferred to avoid since I was a small child. My mother has been working in a private organization that houses and cares for individuals with various mental handicaps for the last 25 years. I grew up around them because my mother would take me to work with her. When I was older I was employed there for several years. I've had enough experience with many individuals with some form of an autism spectrum disorder that I feel pretty comfortable being able to recognize the symptoms.
I'm not surprised that one would type someone with autism/aspergers as an INTJ or ISTJ... The symptoms associated with difficulty communicating would tend to lean them toward Introversion as opposed to Extroversion. The symptoms regarding difficulty understanding and sharing emotions would make it difficult to type some of them as Feelers, so you must default to T. And the preference for established routine and order would imply J over P. I don't think it's so much that those that are typed I*TJ are more likely to have autism, but that those who have autism are difficult to type as anything else because of the way in which their symptoms manifest.
“Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman
Engineers come in all flavors, so I am not going to generalize, but is it possible that some people are attracted to engineering because they find that, at least generally, things are more interesting than people? Can we agree that many of the people who like math and science are also people who like reading, and thinking about things, and programming, and designing things, and puzzles, and solving problems? And can we stipulate that at least some of these people are awkward in social situations, or struggle with the challenges of public speaking?
I think that it is all too easy these days to simply accept bunk labels as an excuse to be boxed but these same labels exist to allow those outside of the identifier to ignore you and demean your views as something substandard and ignorable because it is different. Every aspergers test I've ever seen would happily label me aspergerish without a second though. But I don't choose to accept that label, I just generally find people are generically mislabel 'getting what they want' as someone being their friend. I actively chose not to focus upon what this society labels communication and compassion (for compassion see sympathy, a weak and demeaning form of empathy).
Those who are given such weak labels I call on you to throw off you bonds of oppression and show society that all men (and women) were created equal and that although no-one is less equal than you that you will no longer tolerate being less than equal to anyone else.