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    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Default Share your function order

    Skylights posted the full 8 function order in another thread and it got me thinking..and helped me figure stuff out for myself as you can see below.


    I would like people who have the time and feel like it, to share how their function order impacts them. Taking these theorethical descriptions and applying them to who they are, and see if they fit, as I've done. I think we can learn a lot from how each function works for each type and each person. It should provide a lot of insights, I hope.


    Originally Posted by cognitiveprocesses.com - adapted from Understanding Yourself and Others: An Introduction to the Personality Type Code

    The Roles of the Processes
    In each of the sixteen types, each of the eight processes plays a different “role” in the personality. The type code lets you know what role each process plays for each type. This is called “type dynamics.” It is also referred to as the “hierarchy of functions”: Dominant, Auxiliary, Tertiary, and Inferior. The roles are explained below to help you better understand the patterns. In most of what we do we rely on two of the processes—a preferred way of accessing information and a preferred way of organizing and evaluating that information. As we look more closely we can see that one process takes a leading role and the other takes a supporting role.

    In truth, we have access to all eight cognitive processes—the other six are often in the background, playing other kinds of roles. Each has a positive and a negative way of expressing itself. Each bears a different energy cost when we use it.
    The Primary Processes

    The primary processes are those used in the first four roles. Each process tends to emerge and develop at different times in our lives. During these times we are drawn to activities that use these processes. Then, learning the content and the skills that engage these processes is often nearly effortless. We find our interest is drawn to them and our interest is pulled away from things we were drawn to before.
    The Leading Role (Dominant) (sometimes referred to as the 1st function)
    The process that plays the leading role is the one that usually develops early in childhood. We tend to engage in this process first, trusting it to solve our problems and help us be successful. Being the most trusted and most used, it usually has an adult, mature quality to it. While we are likely to engage in it rather automatically and effortlessly, we have much more conscious control over it. The energy cost for using it is very low. Much like in the movies, the leading role has a heroic quality as using it can get us out of difficult situations. However, we can sometimes “turn up the volume” on this process and become overbearing and domineering. Then it takes on a negative dominating quality.
    When I think of the times I'm under stress and manage it fine, it's due to Ne. I take shortcuts, think outside the box, manage to somehow luck my way into getting things done, my mom always says (of course she's Si-dom ) I just get a plethora of options in front of me, connect the dots and act instinctively on the path that will work. Since it was considered 'cheating' at home, I've always felt guilty for not 'doing the proper work' when engaging in this. But it works. Ne always gets me out of a jam when nothing else can.

    The Supporting Role (Auxiliary) (sometimes referred to as the 2nd function)
    The supporting role is how we are helpful to others as well as supportive of ourselves. Once we have developed some facility with our leading role process, we are more likely to feel comfortable engaging in our supporting role process. In its most positive form, this can be quite like a nurturing parent. In its more negative aspect, it can be overprotective and stunting rather than helpful. When the leading role process is an extraverted one, the supporting role process is introverted. When the leading role process is an introverted one, the supporting role process is extraverted and may be quite active and visible as it provides a way of dealing with the outer world.
    Fi. My Fi's always been about understanding and loving others before I could understand and love myself, which was what I desperately craved. It's what makes me curious about people, what makes me reach out to them, what makes me incapable of ignoring a cry for help, it's what made me hypersensitive and overdramatic as a child in an attempt to protect myself from other people's harsh opinions and the thing I've been working on the last two years in order to get that straightened out (still not fully there *sigh*). It's also what made me my sheltering inner world, where I could lick my wounds and dream, giving all that Ne-what-iffing a place to exist instead of aimlessly float in my head.

    The Relief Role (Tertiary) (sometimes referred to as the 3rd function)
    The relief role gives us a way to energize and recharge ourselves. It serves as a backup to the supporting role and often works in tandem with it. When we are younger, we might not engage in the process that plays this role very much unless our life circumstances require it or make it hard to use the supporting role process. Usually, in young adulthood we are attracted to activities that draw upon this process. The relief role often is how we express our creativity. It is how we are playful and childlike. In its most negative expression, this is how we become childish. Then it has an unsettling quality, and we can use this process to distract ourselves and others, getting us off target.

    Te. Te wasn't really allowed at home, due to Fe-rule. So I became immensely scared of using it. I fluster every time I catch myself doing so, and there's nothing more embarassing than going on a NeTe-bender, as it tends to piss off FeSi-users to no end (makes you a socially retarded idiot with no sense of propriety it seems ). It presents itself when agitated, annoyed, peeved at things not moving forward and things not working the way Fi wants them to go. It's when I'm out of patience to be Ne-ing. It's also what makes me enjoy beading. Organizing the beads, stringing them, and seeing results, aka a necklace. I usually detest routine and repetition, but it's quite soothing in this form, especially when I'm mentally burned out. It gives me a focus that's uncomplicated

    The Aspirational Role (Inferior) (sometimes referred to as the 4th function)
    The aspirational role usually doesn’t develop until around midlife. We often experience it first in its negative aspect of projecting our “shoulds,” fears, and negativities onto others. The qualities of these fears reflect the process that plays this role, and we are more likely to look immature when we engage in the process that plays this role. There is often a fairly high energy cost for using it—even when we acquire the skill to do so. As we learn to trust it and develop it, the aspirational role process provides a bridge to balance in our lives. Often our sense of purpose, inspiration, and ideals have the qualities of the process that plays this role.
    I constantly feel like an idiot for not being able to remember where stuff is, for not noticing things, for not picking up on details. It's not something I naturally do, and I'm ashamed of that. If I do make an effort do notice everything, I get exhausted after half an hour and am completely overstimulated while completely bored. It gives me stress like mad. However, when I have a test, I can become a walking encyclopedia, using my photographic memory in combination with my auditory memory. Also, I recall things from the past by the emotional note they struck in me, as I keep a library of emotional occurances and melodies in my life, for nostalgic indulgence purposes. I also very much enjoy rereading logs with people that i had pleasant convo's with. And, I enjoy the idea of sharing with others what I learned about life, what I encountered, which also ties in with the last part of that paragraph

    The Shadow Processes
    The other four cognitive processes operate more on the boundaries of our awareness. It is as if they are in the shadows and only come forward under certain circumstances. We usually experience these processes in a negative way, yet when we are open to them, they can be quite positive.
    The Opposing Role (sometimes referred to as the 5th function)
    The opposing role is often how we get stubborn and argumentative—refusing to “play” and join in whatever is going on at the time. It might be easy for us to develop skill in the process that plays this role, but we are likely to be more narrow in our application of this skill, and it will likely take more energy to use it extensively. In its positive aspect, it provides a shadow or depth to our leading role process, backing it up and enabling us to be more persistent in pursuit of our goals.
    Ni. This explains a lot. My Ni is quite high according to tests, but I can indeed only use it on certain areas (it doesn't occur to me to use it as broadly as say my INTJ does), and it does drain me when I talk to say ISTPs who are Ni-ing for relief or INXJs that are in the process of getting inspired. I love it, coz it's fascinating to watch but at some point I get lost in the misty cloud that is their Ni. It's also what makes up my gut, I believe, and the thing I cannot explain when I go: 'No..I'm not going there, I don't care what you say!' It's frustrating as hell to others. Or the times that I go:' I just *know* this, don't ask me to explain!'


    The Critical Parent Role (sometimes referred to as the 6th function)
    The critical parent role is how we find weak spots and can immobilize and demoralize others. We can also feel this way when others use the process that plays this role. It is often used sporadically and emerges more often under stressful conditions when something important is at risk. When we engage it, we can go on and on. To access its positive side of discovery, we must learn to appreciate and be open to it. Then it has an almost magical quality and can provide a profound sense of wisdom.
    Fe. Man, I have a love-hate relationship with Fe. I idd know very well which Fe-buttons to push to make someone feel guilty, get them to back off and place sniping remarks while smiling and sipping tea. Hell, the reason I know is coz I know very well how they impact me. I'm hypersensitive to it. If you're unwilling to take a hint and ignore my Te-hammer, I will get to a point where Fi will no longer protect you (Fi-value: do not harm others and be understanding). The second I stop caring about you and you're blatantly attacking me, I will start this and not stop till I've guilttripped you all over the place, and analysed you to the core and pretty much stripped you emotionally bare. I hate doing this though as I will afterwards feel insanely guilty myself. I am working on trying to be open to it and appreciate it, despite frustrating many a Fe-user here with that, it seems

    The Deceiving Role (sometimes referred to as the 7th function)
    The deceiving role fools us into thinking something is important to do or pay attention to. The process that fills this role is often not trusted or seen as worthy of attention, for when we do engage it, we may make mistakes in perception or in decision making. Then we feel double bound—trapped between two bad options. Yet this role can have a positive side as it provides comic relief. Then we can laugh at ourselves. It can be refreshing and join with the relief role as we recharge ourselves through play.
    Ti. Oh my god. I thought it would be my last function as I so *suck* at it. But it makes sense that it's in this place. I feel like flying blind and a fumbling baffoon for even trying when I engage in this and often I'm not even aware of it till I'm midflight I hate it with a vengeance as I cannot trust it for the life of me. I still have nightmares pertaining math and physics and stay far away from those subjects nowadays. I guess I should really start laughing at myself for being such a moron on this. I do try but it makes me feel embarassed and incompetent as my environment tends to be good at this stuff. If there's any function that can make me feel like a stupid blonde bimbette it's this one

    The Devilish Role (sometimes referred to as the 8th function)
    The devilish role can be quite negative. Using the process that plays this role, we might become destructive of ourselves or others. Actions (or inactions) taken when we engage in the process that plays this role are often regretted later. Usually, we are unaware of how to use the process that fills this role and feel like it just erupts and imposes itself rather unconsciously. Yet when we are open to the process that plays the devilish role, it becomes transformative. It gives us the impetus to create something new—to make lemonade out of lemons, rather than lament their sourness.
    Se. I always thought it couldn't be my last function as I do enjoy Se tremendously. Granted, I truly suck at finding things and seeing what's in front of me However, I do enjoy physical sensations immensely, am a great fan of dancing despite not being that good at it and can really savour the feel of soft fabrics on my skin or the taste of food. But now I see it ties in. I do use physical sensations in a...not so healthy way. I can get pretty much lost in them, escape in them and go overboard on them. It's what makes me hyperaware of my appearance as well and I can go OCD on like make-up and pretty shallow things like that for days, before snapping out of it. It does come out of the blue when that mood strikes. I also have an addictive personality, which is why I stay away from cigarettes and alcohol, and the likes, coz I dunno if I'll be able to quit it. I have a hard enough time managing my chocolate addiction I do love the process of SeFi meshed together. The hunting/flirting game is an example of that, as is dancing. I create with what I consider to be utter beauty (defined by Fi) and dance my heart out. Makes sense though that I'm always somewhat frustrated at my execution as I'm not a natural at Se and hence it's always less than perfect. Though..when I focus, I can get that moment of perfect control...i just cannot maintain it
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    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    ok - my first 2 functions are interchangeable on most testing - probably down to being XNTP with a slight preference for I over E:

    Dominant (Ti)
    Auxiliary (Ne)
    Tertiary (Fi)
    Inferior (Te)
    Opposing (Ni)
    Critical Parent (Se)
    Deceiving (Fe)
    Devilish (Si)
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    ok - my first 2 functions are interchangeable on most testing - probably down to being XNTP with a slight preference for I over E:

    Dominant (Ti)
    Auxiliary (Ne)
    Tertiary (Fi)
    Inferior (Te)
    Opposing (Ni)
    Critical Parent (Se)
    Deceiving (Fe)
    Devilish (Si)
    even if test gives you different results on different times, that doesent mean that you change them.. if you slightly prefer I over E, that doesent make you xntp it makes you intp who has high Ne so its easy for you to go in extroverted mode. there is no type called xntp, people who doesent know if they are intp or entp are called xntp since the first letter is unknown.

    function order for intp is always Ti, Ne, Si, Fe. Even if Fi would be your third strongest function, it doesent make it your tertiary function
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    even if test gives you different results on different times, that doesent mean that you change them.. if you slightly prefer I over E, that doesent make you xntp it makes you intp who has high Ne so its easy for you to go in extroverted mode. there is no type called xntp, people who doesent know if they are intp or entp are called xntp since the first letter is unknown.

    function order for intp is always Ti, Ne, Si, Fe. Even if Fi would be your third strongest function, it doesent make it your tertiary function
    I know this - I test sometimes as ENTP (about 40% of the time) and my I over E when I test as INTP shows as a very slight preference. I know there is no such thing as an XNTP but X is often used where no clear preference is shown.

    MBTI is based on a theory and I disagree with the predetermined order of functions as Si is actually my weakest function and shows as unused.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

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    Thanks for starting this thread Satine. It will be an interesting process because when I look at the function order and the roles they are *supposed* to play it's not in the order I assume it would be. I'm just going to go with what seems right to me based upon the descriptions...which is the INFP order, not the ENFP order.

    The Leading Role (Dominant) (sometimes referred to as the 1st function)
    The process that plays the leading role is the one that usually develops early in childhood. We tend to engage in this process first, trusting it to solve our problems and help us be successful. Being the most trusted and most used, it usually has an adult, mature quality to it. While we are likely to engage in it rather automatically and effortlessly, we have much more conscious control over it. The energy cost for using it is very low. Much like in the movies, the leading role has a heroic quality as using it can get us out of difficult situations. However, we can sometimes “turn up the volume” on this process and become overbearing and domineering. Then it takes on a negative dominating quality.
    I really don't know if I should go for Ne or Fi here. I'll start with Fi simply because it will make more sense when I get to using Si as my relief function...I remember being a very sensitive child, always loved animals, was always hugging something and crying easily...holding hands with other little girls on the playground, and feeling deeply spiritual from about the age of seven all the way up until my young adulthood. I kept a diary or journal from the age of eight on up until now (intrapersonal self-analysis, etc.) and developed very strong internal ethics as a teenager. I've always been a very passionate, openly emotionally expressive person, and score about 70% F on MBTI and similar tests. I think it's also what gives me a hint of introversion (if I am in fact ENFP) and what makes it so difficult sometimes to keep from expressing my true feelings. I can't even watch commercials about abused animals without feeling like someone is stabbing me with little knives. I cry at the drop of a hat. I fall in love easily. I have a profound attachment to people and things that I love. It drove me to be very "individualistic" and rebellious as an adolescent, more so than some of my peers, though not in an extreme way since I had my ethics. I also think my Fi can become overbearing and domineering...


    The Supporting Role (Auxiliary) (sometimes referred to as the 2nd function)
    The supporting role is how we are helpful to others as well as supportive of ourselves. Once we have developed some facility with our leading role process, we are more likely to feel comfortable engaging in our supporting role process. In its most positive form, this can be quite like a nurturing parent. In its more negative aspect, it can be overprotective and stunting rather than helpful. When the leading role process is an extraverted one, the supporting role process is introverted. When the leading role process is an introverted one, the supporting role process is extraverted and may be quite active and visible as it provides a way of dealing with the outer world.
    Similar to Satine, I remember being able to just breeze through certain things in school, almost like I absorbed things too easily by luck. I also have gotten out of scrapes in life with quick thinking and unusual or "out of the box" ideas, and I use Ne extensively for play and for building arguments and analysis by making connections and seeing patterns in seemingly unrelated things. In college I could come up with little ideas and jot down quick notes in the margins of notebooks and even just pick up books at the library that personally interested me, then suddenly I would almost *magically* be able to tie it all together into writing A term papers for all of my classes. Sometimes I just see how it all fits together, and occasionally surprise myself.


    The Relief Role (Tertiary) (sometimes referred to as the 3rd function)
    The relief role gives us a way to energize and recharge ourselves. It serves as a backup to the supporting role and often works in tandem with it. When we are younger, we might not engage in the process that plays this role very much unless our life circumstances require it or make it hard to use the supporting role process. Usually, in young adulthood we are attracted to activities that draw upon this process. The relief role often is how we express our creativity. It is how we are playful and childlike. In its most negative expression, this is how we become childish. Then it has an unsettling quality, and we can use this process to distract ourselves and others, getting us off target.
    This is the primary reason I changed my function order: Si is totally my relief function. I take a great deal of comfort in memories, and in tying Si to Fi through things like art and film, but primarily and above all else through music. I have an incredibly long memory that I sometimes over-rely on - like when I was a waitress I would attempt to wait tables without even writing people's orders down and memorizing it instead (tertiary temptation?) - and can sometimes even seem to live in the past. When stressed I will do things that remind me of my childhood or of traditional or "safe" things from the culture in which I was raised. I think picking through details is also an escape for me from my feelings and my problems (i.e. doing things to create external order, cleaning [which is not something I obsessively do, I can be messy and disorganized, but it can make me feel better to clean and organize if I'm depressed or something], or focusing on things like health, diet, exercise), and I can even get childish under stress with wanting to escape into the past or Fi/Si loops, or insisting that other people behave "normally" (no really, I've done this, I know how funny that sounds coming from an NFP). I even take a childish delight in doing things like correcting people's spelling during chats, or correcting grammar on other students' papers when I was in college ...and yes, I realize that it's childish, and it's not something I typically do every day, which I'm sure is evidenced through my misspelled posts on Type C.

    I also think it's easier for me to go Sensing for relief, and Thinking takes more effort from me.



    The Aspirational Role (Inferior) (sometimes referred to as the 4th function)
    The aspirational role usually doesn’t develop until around midlife. We often experience it first in its negative aspect of projecting our “shoulds,” fears, and negativities onto others. The qualities of these fears reflect the process that plays this role, and we are more likely to look immature when we engage in the process that plays this role. There is often a fairly high energy cost for using it—even when we acquire the skill to do so. As we learn to trust it and develop it, the aspirational role process provides a bridge to balance in our lives. Often our sense of purpose, inspiration, and ideals have the qualities of the process that plays this role.
    Despite being repeatedly told I'm a "smart" person, Thinking in the MBTI sense does not seem to be my great strength. I am very F, and Te is definitely something that seems quite negative when it comes from me: bossy, demanding, strict, definitely immature in many cases in the way it comes across. It does take more energy from me to go T since I'm so inclined to be a Feeler. I have learned to trust it more and more in my adult life, though, and I think I am much more Te or "no nonsense" in some situations, and at least more sensible and "down to earth" than I was as an adolescent and a very young adult. I am very aware of my Te, and other people seem to see it too, at least in writing (though no one really saw it in me in person, which is interesting) but I'm not so sure it's my relief function...it may be my inferior?


    The Shadow Processes
    The other four cognitive processes operate more on the boundaries of our awareness. It is as if they are in the shadows and only come forward under certain circumstances. We usually experience these processes in a negative way, yet when we are open to them, they can be quite positive.

    The Opposing Role (sometimes referred to as the 5th function)
    The opposing role is often how we get stubborn and argumentative—refusing to “play” and join in whatever is going on at the time. It might be easy for us to develop skill in the process that plays this role, but we are likely to be more narrow in our application of this skill, and it will likely take more energy to use it extensively. In its positive aspect, it provides a shadow or depth to our leading role process, backing it up and enabling us to be more persistent in pursuit of our goals.
    I can also see how Fe could be my Opposing role, because while it's not my dom function, I do have consciousness of using it, and I do think it supports my Fi. Like I can see it giving my Fi depth, and it may explain why people think they see Fe in me (I've been wondering about that). I also admire healthy Fe in FJs, especially in IxFJs for some reason. I'm also addicted to Fe nurturing style in men too, apparently.


    The Critical Parent Role (sometimes referred to as the 6th function)
    The critical parent role is how we find weak spots and can immobilize and demoralize others. We can also feel this way when others use the process that plays this role. It is often used sporadically and emerges more often under stressful conditions when something important is at risk. When we engage it, we can go on and on. To access its positive side of discovery, we must learn to appreciate and be open to it. Then it has an almost magical quality and can provide a profound sense of wisdom.
    I can totally see Ni as being my Critical Parent because it DOES emerge under extremely stressful conditions, usually in the form of HUGE almost mind-altering perspective shifts in the middle of emotional responses. It definitely has an almost magical quality and provides wisdom. I can also see where it can make me feel inferior when other people use it well.


    The Deceiving Role (sometimes referred to as the 7th function)
    The deceiving role fools us into thinking something is important to do or pay attention to. The process that fills this role is often not trusted or seen as worthy of attention, for when we do engage it, we may make mistakes in perception or in decision making. Then we feel double bound—trapped between two bad options. Yet this role can have a positive side as it provides comic relief. Then we can laugh at ourselves. It can be refreshing and join with the relief role as we recharge ourselves through play.
    Yeah I definitely make a lot of Se mistakes, because I'm not very "in the moment" with my sensing on a regular basis. That would surely fall under me thinking it wasn't important to pay attention to. I definitely make mistakes with Se, which is why I suck at team sports maybe. I do love to swim and dance and walk and run...amongst other things ... so I don't hate Se. That's why I don't view it as my demonic function. I can definitely see it joining with my relief Si when I do physical or sensory things to relax and play. I'm pretty in touch with my sensing side for an N. I think...but yeah, I also have some fear toward Se in some regards, so I can see it being Deceiving role.


    The Devilish Role (sometimes referred to as the 8th function)
    The devilish role can be quite negative. Using the process that plays this role, we might become destructive of ourselves or others. Actions (or inactions) taken when we engage in the process that plays this role are often regretted later. Usually, we are unaware of how to use the process that fills this role and feel like it just erupts and imposes itself rather unconsciously. Yet when we are open to the process that plays the devilish role, it becomes transformative. It gives us the impetus to create something new—to make lemonade out of lemons, rather than lament their sourness
    I suck at Ti. It's my worst function. I also get annoyed with it sometimes in other people...it causes probably more eye rolling on my part than any other function, I swear. It's not that I'm not capable of admiring it in other people, but yeah, Ti is not my thing. It's the other function which made me question my function order, because Ti seems more devilish to me than Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I know this - I test sometimes as ENTP (about 40% of the time) and my I over E when I test as INTP shows as a very slight preference. I know there is no such thing as an XNTP but X is often used where no clear preference is shown.

    MBTI is based on a theory and I disagree with the predetermined order of functions as Si is actually my weakest function and shows as unused.
    I totally feel you on this one. I appear to be an ENFP with INFP function order.

    Or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I know this - I test sometimes as ENTP (about 40% of the time) and my I over E when I test as INTP shows as a very slight preference. I know there is no such thing as an XNTP but X is often used where no clear preference is shown.

    MBTI is based on a theory and I disagree with the predetermined order of functions as Si is actually my weakest function and shows as unused.
    if you would test as esfj, would you think that you are now an esfj? what ever the test says, it means nothing because no test(even the professional ones) can determine your type on 100% with accuracy. the results that any test gives is effected how you feel in your current life situation, but your type is not. Lets say that you are an intp and at some point of life you would use Ne more actively than your Ti, it doesent mean that you change to entp for some time, any type is able to use any function if the situation needs it, how well you use it, how much it drains your mental power and how easily you start to use it depends on how strong the function is. Intp with strong Ne would easily change to use Ne more actively than Ti because Ne is so strong.

    My Ne is almost as strong as my Ti also, and i have had result from test that my Fi would be my 3rd strongest function, then it dropped from 3rd to 5th after the situation changed where i had to use my Fi pretty actively..

    That function order works like having Ji, Pe, Pi and Je as the 4 main functions for a reason. If you would have two Ji functions for example as 2nd and 3rd functions they would clash with each other all the time, same goes for two Je, Pi and Pe. At times when my Fi is more active i can feel it clash with my Ti and its really frustrating and causes me to not be able to make decisions even more because im judging nearly everything from two opposite point of views and both will say the other way is wrong causing me to try to get more information to the point where there is none anymore, but making me think that there must be something because if i would have all the information i would be able to make an judgment. Not every decision is taken to so extremes, but there is no way someone could function normally like that for long periods of time.

    And since Ji and Je wont clash with each other like that because other judgment is aimed at something that you have already perceived and other is aimed at the time of perceiving.

    My friend seems to use both Ne and Ni pretty actively, this causes delusions to him because he first gets what if questions from Ne from external world, then he perceives those questions inside and they seem as real to him as Ni would feel to intj for example. Luckily this condition is reasonably well handled with schizophrenia drugs. This is a fine example why you cant have two perceiving functions of the same nature(N for example) in main 4 functions because it would give you problems like this.

    Therefore if you use Ti and Ne as first and second functions, you are bound to have Si and Fe as third and fourth, unless you are schizophrenic.

    But its totally different if you are in some situation that requires you to use Fi as judgment for example instead of Ti.

    And even tho my Fi is stronger than my Fe, im using Fe more easily, but i dont use it as well as i use my Fi. Fi comes to use on things that really matter to me because it would clash with my Ti too much.

    You get the point now?

    and that "no clear preference is shown" means that the functions are so close to each other that its hard to say clearly if you are intp or entp, it doesent mean that you are both types, it just means that you are so close to both that its hard to decide which one are you -> your i/e is unknown therefore marked as x.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #8
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    if you would test as esfj, would you think that you are now an esfj? what ever the test says, it means nothing because no test(even the professional ones) can determine your type on 100% with accuracy. the results that any test gives is effected how you feel in your current life situation, but your type is not. Lets say that you are an intp and at some point of life you would use Ne more actively than your Ti, it doesent mean that you change to entp for some time, any type is able to use any function if the situation needs it, how well you use it, how much it drains your mental power and how easily you start to use it depends on how strong the function is. Intp with strong Ne would easily change to use Ne more actively than Ti because Ne is so strong.

    My Ne is almost as strong as my Ti also, and i have had result from test that my Fi would be my 3rd strongest function, then it dropped from 3rd to 5th after the situation changed where i had to use my Fi pretty actively..

    That function order works like having Ji, Pe, Pi and Je as the 4 main functions for a reason. If you would have two Ji functions for example as 2nd and 3rd functions they would clash with each other all the time, same goes for two Je, Pi and Pe. At times when my Fi is more active i can feel it clash with my Ti and its really frustrating and causes me to not be able to make decisions even more because im judging nearly everything from two opposite point of views and both will say the other way is wrong causing me to try to get more information to the point where there is none anymore, but making me think that there must be something because if i would have all the information i would be able to make an judgment. Not every decision is taken to so extremes, but there is no way someone could function normally like that for long periods of time.

    And since Ji and Je wont clash with each other like that because other judgment is aimed at something that you have already perceived and other is aimed at the time of perceiving.

    My friend seems to use both Ne and Ni pretty actively, this causes delusions to him because he first gets what if questions from Ne from external world, then he perceives those questions inside and they seem as real to him as Ni would feel to intj for example. Luckily this condition is reasonably well handled with schizophrenia drugs. This is a fine example why you cant have two perceiving functions of the same nature(N for example) in main 4 functions because it would give you problems like this.

    Therefore if you use Ti and Ne as first and second functions, you are bound to have Si and Fe as third and fourth, unless you are schizophrenic.

    But its totally different if you are in some situation that requires you to use Fi as judgment for example instead of Ti.

    And even tho my Fi is stronger than my Fe, im using Fe more easily, but i dont use it as well as i use my Fi. Fi comes to use on things that really matter to me because it would clash with my Ti too much.

    You get the point now?

    and that "no clear preference is shown" means that the functions are so close to each other that its hard to say clearly if you are intp or entp, it doesent mean that you are both types, it just means that you are so close to both that its hard to decide which one are you -> your i/e is unknown therefore marked as x.
    Rather than answer each point I am going to quote directly on the subject of Theory from page 32 of the MBTI Manual by Isabel Briggs Myers, Mary H. MCCauley, Naomi L. Quenk and Allen L. Hammer:

    We can also begin intelligently to expect ENTPs to be different from others in ways characteristic of previously known ENTPs. To describe them as belonging to that type (if they agree that it is their type) in no way infringes on their right to be what they like. They were exercising that right when they found, consciously or unconsciously, that they liked Extraversion, Intuition, Thinking and the Perceiving attitude.

    In dealing with people, when we keep their type in mind, we are respecting not only their abstract right to develop along lines of their own choosing but also the importance of qualities they have developed by making that choice. For example, if, for whatever reason, they have not exercised one or more of their preferences, they may not have developed a type, or at least a type that they can report clearly. Not everyone is a type.
    Type is not set in concrete as you seem to believe.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  9. #9
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I totally feel you on this one. I appear to be an ENFP with INFP function order.

    Or something.
    Read the post I have quoted above from the manual and feel the pressure to be what everyone says you are evaporate You are what and who you choose to be!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Rather than answer each point I am going to quote directly on the subject of Theory from page 32 of the MBTI Manual by Isabel Briggs Myers, Mary H. MCCauley, Naomi L. Quenk and Allen L. Hammer:



    Type is not set in concrete as you seem to believe.
    i dont believe it that easily. mbti is system made based on jungs theories and i wouldnt trust that Isabel Briggs Myers knows every reason for everything about jungs theories and if she is making her own theories on something that she doesent know every single reason for everything why jung decided to set types as he did, she could easily make small mistakes on little things like this if type is set but types can work in other ways or if type is not set and that why people working in different ways. i mean jung cant possibly reason everything(and i mean totally everything, like what thing triggered an intuition about something that made me think about this that led me think about this which led me to this conclusion about something, not to mention how it all comes together) in his books that isabel made her theories from. not to mention that since these are all theories and my theory makes more sense to me i can easily disregard bits on someone elses theory. theory based on another theory can really easily go wrong on some things on reality, my whole thinking is based on making theories about everything, and im more sceptic about theories of theory that i made myself, this is why im being more sceptic about mbti than jung

    do you happen to know what jung said about this? not that i would think that he must be correct since its also an theory, but i would find it easier to believe from him. maybe even coincider it to the point that i would try to look reasons behind it so that i could believe it.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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