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  1. #31
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    According to the test I just took:

    Ti
    Ne
    Fi
    Te
    Ni
    Se
    Si
    Fe

    What does that mean? I can't be bothered to analyze it.
    Ha, I'll have a go: results not guaranteed! This is interesting actually, as it fits in with some of what I was thinking about you.

    Definite INTP function order-wise (Ti-Ne as the top two fits INTP perfectly, especially if you're sure about them being stronger than the others) Interestingly your Fi is unusually strong for an INTP, though given the fact that Ti is apparently so dominant INxP would be a bit far-fetched. I would have guessed that Fi would be high actually; I've seen you have some quite subjective personal values at times!

    I do think that when you're holding to those those subjective values you tend to be very Te in the way you express them, however; this has made me wonder if you were actually INTJ on a few occasions, as I was really seeing an Fi-Te process at work. I'm wondering if this is a kind of functional shadow mode to you because of your high Fi?
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  2. #32
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^Yeah. Makes sense, I guess..
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #33
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    My results on these sorts of tests tend to have Ni consistently higher than the others by a good bit, followed by Ne, Fi, and Ti in varying orders, followed by Se, Te, and Fe in varying orders, with Si always last. Makes sense given my solid introversion and always feeling I'm straddling more than one type pretty equally. So...

    Ni
    Ne/Fi/Ti
    Se/Te/Fe
    Si

    As for analyzing various 'roles' each of the functions has in my personality, I've always found the exercise rather pointless/counterproductive. What others have already mentioned - you could fairly easily, with creativity, 'justify' pretty much any order for yourself, choosing certain behaviors over others to justify one order over another. It's fine if others want to do it and see utility in it... I've just never seen the value in it for myself.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Lol, the problem is that when it's broken down into all these subcategories with evocative, image-rich names like "critical parent", it's easy and tempting for people to want to reason from these categories and try to filter experiential reality through them. Do you see what I'm saying now?
    Yup. Lots of opportunity for Forer to take over.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Here is my order from various cognitive processes tests... with the ellipsis ("…") representing gaps in strength between an item and its predecessor.


    Fi Ti … Ne … Fe … Si Te Ni Se

    Not sure I buy my Fe is that high, though. Or that I don't somehow use Fi towards more technical ends (rather than having Ti run a close second).

  6. #36
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    IIRC my order was something like this-

    Fi>Se=Ni>Ne>Fe>Ti>Si>Te
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #37
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    According to the test I just took:

    Ti
    Ne
    Fi
    Te
    Ni
    Se
    Si
    Fe

    What does that mean? I can't be bothered to analyze it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I don't know what to make of functions.

    Mine make no sense

    Fi-43
    Ni-35
    Ne-34
    Se-34
    Fe-34
    Te-31
    Ti-27
    Si-26
    The order is not about strengths; it's more about the roles they play in our consciousness or ego development.

    So in the first case, the first two are likely the preferred functions. Fi is the right brain alternative of Ti, so it is possible for that to be that strong. Lenore Thomson's theory gives us an additional perspective of function degradation, and hence, a different stacking order (TiNe-FiSeNiTe-SiFe). The shadows end up inbetween the dom/aux and tert/inferior blocks, and a lot of people's cogitive process results actually come closer to this order. We see here that it partly does for you.

    Likewise, Thinking (no "e" or "i") is the dominant function, which happens to be matched to a preferred internal orientation. But this dominant thinking can surface in the external orientation as well. Hence, strong "Te". All that means is that you do turn to the opposite orientation a lot.

    For the second case, the first two functions listed cannot both be preferred. The first and third can, and since the second one is actually the shadow (opposite orientation) of the third, then it suggests an FiNe preference, with the iNtuition having its orientation reversed a lot.

    The others are all out of order, but we see both Thinking as low, supporting a strong F preference. Se is also a right brain alternative (to Ne), and again, people's tertiary often comes out very low in strength, so that might be why those are like that.

    Again for Seymour; Ti is right brain alternative.
    Black Cat; Tertiary and Trickster have apparently developed together as Beebe suggested, and I have mentioned elsewhere.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  8. #38
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Lenore Thomson's theory gives us an additional perspective of function degradation, and hence, a different stacking order (TiNe-FiSeNiTe-SiFe). The shadows end up inbetween the dom/aux and tert/inferior blocks, and a lot of people's cogitive process results actually come closer to this order. We see here that it partly does for you.
    Yes, of course. I've always subscribed to Thomson's theory - the inferior function is eighth/last (not fourth). For most INTPs this is Fe. Its diametrical opposition to Ti means it perforce is the most neglected function, even without buying into all the brain lateralization stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #39
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Skylights posted the full 8 function order in another thread and it got me thinking..and helped me figure stuff out for myself as you can see below.


    I would like people who have the time and feel like it, to share how their function order impacts them. Taking these theorethical descriptions and applying them to who they are, and see if they fit, as I've done. I think we can learn a lot from how each function works for each type and each person. It should provide a lot of insights, I hope.
    sweet, good idea!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    According to the test I just took:

    Ti
    Ne
    Fi
    Te
    Ni
    Se
    Si
    Fe

    What does that mean? I can't be bothered to analyze it.
    it means that you are lazy

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    The problem with function roles is that one can bend functions to match the roles as they apply to his/her own life if they try hard enough. Just like any of the more detailed aspects of MBTI, you sort of have to ask how exactly the function roles have been validated.. or at least what the rationale behind them is.

    [...]

    So uh I guess what I'm saying is to try not to base too much on things that have little rationale, as your whole way of thinking will fall once your fundamental assumptions are no longer seen as valid.
    so true, excellent point for sure.

    i do think the theory is valuable, and not pulled out of thin air. i was skeptical at first when i saw how complex it was, but it's based off of some simple principles, like balance. if my primary function is Ne, extraverted Perceiving, then i need an introverted Judging function to balance it. but to balance that, i'm going to need another extroverted function, and it goes that way down the list. i do wonder if there could be an ENFP whose functions go more in the order of Ne > Fi > Si > Te, because, in truth, i don't see any real reason Te must come before Si. if Fi and Si are next to each other in order, you do have two introverted functions in a row, but if Fi and Te are, then you have two Judging functions in a row. either way, they don't work out perfectly. but then, i am not terribly well-versed in function theory.



    okay, so, in the interest of remaining neutral in regards to my functions, i figure that first i'll just step back and look at each of the functions i use and how, without looking at the roles. i do love the idea of jungian archetypes, though, so maybe i'll go back and analyze some of those later.

    as for preference... probably Ne > Fi > Te > Se = Si > Fe = Ni > Ti. i'll talk about them in proper order though.

    Extraverted iNtuition - i love Ne. it's an endless stream of ideas and colors and possibilities. it's always seeing connectivity in everything. at home, growing up, i was always praised for my ability to make connections and associations at, even if they didn't always use clear step-by-step form, so i've always trusted this function a lot. Ne paired with Te can get me out of almost any corner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Satine
    Since it was considered 'cheating' at home, I've always felt guilty for not 'doing the proper work' when engaging in this. But it works. Ne always gets me out of a jam when nothing else can.
    Satine it's interesting that you say this because i didn't get this until school. i was typically the top student (not to be conceited - it was very much a double-edged sword and i regret it somewhat, i think it's an easy tendency for ENFPs though because Ne is visibly quick and Fi is people-pleasing).

    anyway,one of my most traumatic early school memories is in 2nd grade when i came up with a way of solving a type of math problems that was easier for me, and being called up to the board in class to do a problem - at which point the teacher criticized me for using a different ("wrong") method to get the answer. i was both floored and embarrassed. to the day, i am really annoyed by rules or methods that "hold me back". i do now understand the value of doing it the standard way, but back then, i was completely mystified. i argued with my teacher in front of the class as to why it wasn't wrong...

    incidentally i'm also pretty sure Ne is the reason i can't listen to anything but slow instrumental music and write at the same time, which so many other people seem to be able to do easily. there are just too many ideas and patterns that catch my attention otherwise.

    Introverted Feeling - Fi is, to me, about meaning. Ne might provide access to an endless flow, but none of it would mean anything without Fi to give importance. i think partially because of Ne, lots of my Fi-values are things like "everyone is valuable" and "most people have good intentions" (bad intentions typically coming from a place of hurt) - things that are very broad in nature. Fi is what makes me pissed off at good-music songs that have negative lyrics, lol. Fi makes it easy to "read" people for genuineness and how to connect with them when they are at a place of hurt. the word i mainly associate it with is "love", because while i do understand that Fi is self-centered, all of my actions must start with myself, so i don't see there being conflict in that. i also see the world in F pulses/impressions - my thoughts and memories are largely images and emotions. i've always told others that i think in pictures, and the concept of Fi makes sense of that.

    Extroverted Thinking - growing up with a pair of INTPs, i've very much had to develop my Thinking to be able to hold my own with them, and it's not something i regret at all. i still base my value judgments in Fi, but i can explain them using Te. admittedly, when i'm angry, my Te is not always the most refined thing, and i need to work my way through things via writing or speaking before i can connect the dots logically, and it often involves a lot of reorganizing. Satine, what you said about this rings very true for me as well:
    I usually detest routine and repetition, but it's quite soothing in this form, especially when I'm mentally burned out. It gives me a focus that's uncomplicated
    when i'm tired and need a break from intellectual thinking, i really enjoy doing something like organizing documents on my computer, sorting things by color, etc. i love charts and diagrams, and i make and use lots of lists, contrary to what every description of Ps says. i'm do a bit of programming, and i really enjoy clean, concise, and well-organized code too. i tend to think i have some kind of elegant/clean Te-aesthetic, in addition to my Ne OMG SHINY, lol

    Introverted Sensing - in some ways this is a confounding function to me; i don't entirely understand it. my memory is not the best detail-wise, though i am very good at remembering ideas, theories, and feelings. i get deja vu enough to merit mention, which seems like a Si-Ni thing to me, and when i have an important project, i can be very detail-oriented. i do enjoy the past and tend to retain the details of happier memories much more easily than negative ones. i aim to get meaning from the negative, and only tend to remember that.

    Introverted iNtuition - Ni. i really like Ni, especially since it's a bit mystical. my Ni moments always come after a long intense bout of Ne, when i'm finally chilling out and on Se autopilot. and then stuff hits me, those OHHHH moments, lol. i don't often have the future-imperative drive that i've seen Ni described to have, but i generally figure out books and movies by 1/3 of the way through (besides Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead, i loved those books) - though nothing like an ENFJ friend of mine can. i love archetypes and connecting back to that idea of "collective consciousness" - wasn't Jung himself Ni dom? i don't have enough confidence to trust any predictions IRL though - too many Ne possibilities. i love Ni humor too - not looking outside the box like Ne, but looking at the box in a different way.

    Extraverted Feeling - thanks to my wonderful ESFJ mom i have experienced mostly nuturing, generous, selfless, caring Fe. however, i have also experienced guilt trips, which i cannot stand! anyway, thanks to her, i've been able to develop my Fe much more. i do have a better appreciation of social protocol and gestures. that said, i'm still typically a bit awkward when using Fe, which i think makes me less socially extraverted than i would be otherwise. i have a great desire to be socially fluid but i have to work hard to maintain it.

    Introverted Thinking - um, do i even use Ti? poor neglected Ti. actually, where i see Ti manifested most in my life is in terms of my thinking about organizational systems. colors, for instance, and words - maroon for example is a very specific color in my opinion, and i am annoyed when others mark it incorrectly, or think differently. it upsets me when i don't have a clear understanding of exactly what a certain word means or if there are conflicting descriptions. if i'm in an argument and losing i'll pull in Ti to attack semantics and catch someone in a Ne-Ti trap (i know this and not how to explain it, damn it Ne)

    Extraverted Sensing - i mentioned this in the other thread, but i actually love Se. when i'm overstimulated, Se is incredibly comforting - i feel like if i let Ne "tune out" then Se is there underneath - it's the yoga idea of "letting go" and just feeling/hearing your breathing, and everything around you. i'm not very good at paying attention to everything around me, but i do experience sensations in what i would call "rich detail." i also finally had a moment the other night when that one description of Se's thing about "instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation" clicked - that's when i'm driving and i push it as fast as i can go around a corner without losing control and shift and brake at the very last minute, relying completely on the feel of the clutch and the sound of the engine to tell me what i need to know. yay Se

    okay, now gonna go match these up to the roles... woooo
    Last edited by skylights; 08-03-2010 at 02:49 PM. Reason: corrected quote fail

  10. #40
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    The results I've gotten have varied somewhat (partly because I kept ignoring the directions and because of abnormal circumstances in my life), but at the moment, my ordering seems to be:

    Ni
    Ti
    Fe
    Ne/Fi
    Te/Si
    Se

    It would be hard to answer the OP's question, because I don't really see my function order as something external to me that has an impact on my behavior. I see it more as a shorthand way of describing that behavior itself, and to some extent of shaping my self-image. My behavior and self-image as they relate to the MBTI obviously have an impact on what I've done, am doing, and will do in the future, but I don't think that's the type of answer the OP was going for. I think the OP was operating on a mechanistic view of the human condition, in which your functions and the way they're lined up are mental hardware that send your thoughts and actions flowing down certain predetermined channels.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

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