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  1. #411
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You mean... empathy might be a near-universal human trait? And that we favor or lack it less because of function preference, but rather more because the experiences in our lives have better or worse prepared us for acting in such an evolutionarily complex manner?

    It's almost like you've studied human psychology or something.

    (BTW, if the rest of y'all are still caught up in type, this is a J type "thinking outside of the box" by looking at the box and rearranging it. It's education that drives new thinking, predilection towards innovative thought only gets you so far)
    You don't even know my type.

  2. #412
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    This is accurate.

    Not sure why it needed the "though", though, as I really don't think there's anything wrong with what I said.
    Because you started with a position of suspicion, not neutrality. Thus, you assigned a behaviour to her [editing it in after], that has negative implications to her credibility of character.

    The please added after, thus, seemed like is a paradox to the abovementioned sentiment portrayed. I.e., sarcasm.

    Hence, "though".

    Edit: sorry, re-quoted you ^, as you edited after.

  3. #413
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You don't even know my type.
    Sure I do - tall, red-headed, crazy in the sack

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Because you started with a position of suspicion, not neutrality. Thus, you assigned a behaviour to her [editing it in after], that has negative implications to her credibility of character.

    The please added after, thus, seemed like is a paradox to the abovementioned sentiment portrayed. I.e., sarcasm.

    Hence, "though".
    Nice explanation, aside from one part.

    I didn't assign the behavior.

    I assigned the potential for the act, and not so much out of malice, but moreso out of the fact that sometimes people go back and edit posts, and, if I'd missed an edit in which she asked for clarification, that this might be the reason why.

  5. #415
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Because you started with a position of suspicion, not neutrality.
    My very, very quick scan of this thread indicates that this is a manifestation of Fe. So, like, that's progress, right?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #416
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Sure I do - tall, red-headed, crazy in the sack
    Looks like you don't know my gender, either. Lol.

  7. #417
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Well, Z edits lots of posts after posting them, he is just saying what he said knowing he may have missed any changes in the back & forth since his initial read ... why would we assume he was trying to be nasty to protean?

    I ascribed the wrong interpretation to the edit space, but I was not incorrect in saying he wasn't accusing her of anything.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    this is a J type "thinking outside of the box"
    yeah, and up is down and black is white and hamburgers eat people in your magical bizarro upside down land where reality doesn't apply

  9. #419
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Looks like you don't know my gender, either. Lol.
    Now at what point did I mention gender in that post?

  10. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    ETA: It's post #377
    Ok, here's that post:

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I saw a contradiction because if a function motivates you to a certain behavior, then how would you see the function at work if the behavior (empathy) can also be motivated by another function?

    If these are motivations:

    Are they doing it because they have familial associations or any other ties to Haiti?
    Are they doing it because they're French and feel some kind of former colonial tie?
    Are they doing it because they want to run for Haitian president and believe they can run things better?
    Are they doing it out of the unbounded goodness of their heart?

    How would you know Fi (for example) made a person empathize? The other motivations still resulted in empathy. IOW, how do you know the order is function>motivation>behavior vs motivation>function>behavior. That is the pointless part to me.

    If I'm not understanding then please restate your question another way so I can get it.
    I guess the part in bold is where you asked for clarification.

    What had originally started the discussion/argument was this post of Jag's:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Building Blocks of Personality Type: Jung's Mental Processes, Page 101:

    Unique Strengths of Fe:

    EMPATHY

    /Thread
    To which you responded:

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This isn't a race; I'm not claiming Fe is more empathetic either.

    Above anything else, I believe empathy is a learned skill.
    To which I replied:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    But couldn't you just turn around and say that the skill one is learning is to use a function associated with empathy (Fe, Fi: take your choice)?
    To which you provided this response (which I have deemed irrelevant):

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    No because empathy is largely based on mirror neurons and neurotransmitters within the brain. Empathetic response is natural. Other babies start crying when one baby starts crying. Think of all the recent tragedies in the world of the last five years: the current flooding in Afghanistan, the Tsunami, the Haitian earthquake, Hurricane Katrina. Humanity as a Whole responds incredibly quickly to other humans in pain.

    Now when you break it down to the individual level you can see a more pronounced difference in empathic response, but at that point it's hard to hash it out. Take the Haitian earthquake again. For example, a person to this very day continues to donate money to relief efforts.

    Are they doing it because they have familial associations or any other ties to Haiti?
    Are they doing it because they're French and feel some kind of former colonial tie?
    Are they doing it because they want to run for Haitian president and believe they can run things better?
    Are they doing it out of the unbounded goodness of their heart?

    All of them may be material manifestations of empathy, but then you move into motivations and why someone is doing what they do and is one motivation more "noble" than the other? How do you begin to weigh?

    If you want to make the argument that cognitive functions (Lenore Thomson does this) are linked to the brain then it's even harder to justify and substantiate. Feel free to speculate for a though exercise. If you want to try, go ahead but I think it's pointless.
    To which I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I don't really see how any of that contradicted my point, but...

    hayo!
    To which you replied:

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I saw a contradiction because if a function motivates you to a certain behavior, then how would you see the function at work if the behavior (empathy) can also be motivated by another function?

    If these are motivations:

    Are they doing it because they have familial associations or any other ties to Haiti?
    Are they doing it because they're French and feel some kind of former colonial tie?
    Are they doing it because they want to run for Haitian president and believe they can run things better?
    Are they doing it out of the unbounded goodness of their heart?

    How would you know Fi (for example) made a person empathize? The other motivations still resulted in empathy. IOW, how do you know the order is function>motivation>behavior vs motivation>function>behavior. That is the pointless part to me.

    If I'm not understanding then please restate your question another way so I can get it.
    Which, upon re-reading, still seems like horrible inferior Ti reasoning to me...

    What exactly is the supposed contradiction?

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