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  1. #331
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    I'm gunna try some inductive reasoning here:

    1. lightly skimming this thread made me start to feel like Jag...
    2. yet i tend to agree with what skylight said about Jag's constant (dis)missives...
    3. perhaps Jag tends to feel the way he does because he's often just skimming threads...?

  2. #332
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Thanks for putting words in my mouth, two days in row. If you want to rant like that, do it on someone who will put up with it. I am not that person.
    1. you can reject however much of that post you please, but you implied in response to my post that i was saying trust depended on Fi or Fe. sounds like you were putting words in my mouth. i'm attempting to clarify and expressing my frustration.

    2. if you don't want to hear me responding to you, then don't respond to me. my emotional expression may be more intense than what you prefer, but i'm not acting inappropriately, as far as i understand.


    edit - also note that in the beginning of my post i said this could be wrong and Fe-users let me know if it is.

  3. #333
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    I can see both sides... it's hard to side with just one.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    I can see both sides... it's hard to side with just one.
    Well, that's obviously cuz you're an Fe-user.


  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    1. you can reject however much of that post you please, but you implied in response to my post that i was saying trust depended on Fi or Fe. sounds like you were putting words in my mouth. i'm attempting to clarify and expressing my frustration.

    2. if you don't want to hear me responding to you, then don't respond to me. my emotional expression may be more intense than what you prefer, but i'm not acting inappropriately, as far as i understand.
    You're not.

    :footballreferee:

  6. #336
    Glycerine
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    You...you...poooo butt.... you....are.... uhhh.... not.... nice..... yeah... that's.... right... I.... called.... you.... poo butt.... take that.... :steam:

  7. #337
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    why is it so hard for you to admit that people are impacted by their cognitive functioning?

    i didn't say all trust is based off Fe or Fi. i'm saying the way in which and the reasons why we trust seems to be impacted by it.

    i know people with Fe higher in their function order that are way more trusting, and people with Fi who are way less trusting. i think it has a lot to do with environment that you're raised in too. in my post, i also wrote that i think Fe entails a better awareness of trust. can't we all agree at the very least that Fi is slightly more oblivious?

    why is it that any time anyone attempts to ascribe something to Fe or Fi it's automatically shot down? we do it with all the other functions. if we can ascribe depth to Ni and breadth to Ne why can't we do the same for Fi and Fe?

    i'm not boxing anyone in, i'm not making definite universal statements, i'm not launching the spanish inquisition against "Fe users who don't trust."

    i'm attempting to discuss typology, god forbid.
    The problem is that no one can really agree on what exactly Fi or Fe is. We all agree that some of us have one, and others have the other. Meanwhile, we have no basis with which to make the distinction.

    What if Fi/Fe were entirely determinative by life experience, and not something innate? Wouldn't that change the conversation entirely?

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    You...you...poooo butt.... you....are.... uhhh.... not.... nice..... yeah... that's.... right... I.... called.... you.... poo butt.... take that.... :steam:


    you're adorable...

  9. #339
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    *Sigh* A brief interlude folks, and then you can all carry on!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think this is very enlightening. So it's more about your "sensing" where the "relationship" is ... the degree of the connection?

    What does that "sensing" feel like to you? Does it feel objective or analytical? Does it feel more subjective, kind of like an estimate? Or is it simply an awareness that defies description?
    Yes, degree of connection is important to me - on *both* sides. Again, the relationship being beneficial for BOTH parties is pretty critical to me; if I sense any imbalance, or one person thinking the nature of the relationship is one way and the other that it's another way, then I become intensely uncomfortable. I often post on here in relationship/friendship type threads that 'both people being on the same page' is incredibly important to me. To give you a specific example, it can be a reason I as a general rule am unable to really hold platonic male friendships, and also wouldn't really open up with a guy in the same way I do with women, because I fear that will cause the nature of the relationship to shift -- if I sense even remotely that the guy would prefer something more than I do, when I have no interest whatsoever in him, I can't just tralala my way through it, not caring that he'd prefer more and myself being cool with that mismatched dynamic/intention/motivation. I DO care. (and of course the roles could shift as well)

    What does the 'sensing' feel like? I'm not entirely sure! haha. Perhaps what I wrote gives you an idea. Also, I myself already have a general idea of the types of relationships I desire and need, and the types I don't really want; and, based on what I learn of the other person, I then have an idea if our needs/desires/priorities/values line up, or if they don't, in the end.

    -----

    And I'm signing off for the night! Carry on! lol.
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  10. #340
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    why is it so hard for you to admit that people are impacted by their cognitive functioning?
    This is what I think the problem is. I admit this could be totally contained to me, but this is what I think.

    Take the statement "Fe starts from a position of distrust." I automatically have this word map unfold in my mind. I hear the word "distrust" and this is what appears. A lack of faith or belief in something.

    Contrast this to "Fi starts from a position of trust." Same thing appears in my mind. Belief in something as true, trustworthy.

    I'm not joking, those are literally the images and associations that pop into my mind.

    Do you see how it's already starting off on the wrong foot? There is no neutrality in descriptions. It's the same thing when people say "Fi is authentic." You're automatically setting up an oppositional force. If one thing is real then the other is fake. If one is, the other isn't. Do I believe that is the case? No, I don't. But many people do. And because it's hard to break out of either/or thinking. I fall into it too...I'm not absolving myself.

    why is it that any time anyone attempts to ascribe something to Fe or Fi it's automatically shot down? we do it with all the other functions. if we can ascribe depth to Ni and breadth to Ne why can't we do the same for Fi and Fe?
    I asked people to splice the Fe and Fi out of the mission statement I posted earlier. No one has tried. In my very first post in this thread I asked these questions. I said this before all the drama and no one responded to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    So then you have it (if "it" is Fe...*shrug*) at work on different levels, not just at professionally, but casually as well between family, friends, and SOs. It's easier to point out Fe at work in those detached situations that you can exit after a you put in your eight hours. I think people believe Fe loses steam here, but I don't see that happening at all.

    I've noticed the replies in this thread have tended to steer towards "society" and "civilization" and not examining Fe within the context of intimate relationships, one-on-one relationships, between friends and family. Does Fe just go poof and disappear like a vapor or something? Can people conceive of Fe working on more intimate levels because there is a serious lack of discussion about it. I can't really say it's Fe anymore myself because when I talk to other people about intimacy and the quality of their personal relationships and when I think about what I want for myself, I lose the distinction myself...it's all like "yeah, I've feel that too" and it doesn't matter what functions the other person is using. But it's not unnatural to me and it doesn't feel like I've got to do some huge cognitive switch to go into that mode either. I've always felt that I have at least two sets of tracks running, one public and one private and jumping between the two is something that's relatively easy so I've never really understood what people are saying about inauthenticity because they're both me and it's not disconcerting or odd to go between them...
    I think the problem you're running into is you're trying to break processes down into places they can't go. They're inadequate to cover this. They don't stretch that far. It's not being resistant to categorizing functions, it's about understanding they have reached the end of their rope and outlived their usefulness. It's like a woman trying to put her ass into jeans that will not fit. Give it up, it's not happening! Once things are this granular (trust, love, intimacy, feeling understood, etc.) the distinctions are lost.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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