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  1. #301
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    *watches the expansion with interest*
    That's what she said.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Yup, and it's interesting that you bring this point up

    I'm pretty sure that Jung urged people to integrate their shadows into their personality.
    So if we say that Fi starts intra and Fe starts inter, then switching would be trying to start intra instead of starting inter, not exactly reaching Fi building that trust. As opposed to keep trying to reach intra. Would be like jumping ship for Xe instead of trying to reach Xi the normal way.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #303
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I don't think this is about mbti.
    Please share with me what you think it is about; I welcome your thoughts.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think it was a remarkable post, and I'm disappointed as well.

    Of course, maybe it was ignored because no one could take any beef with it?
    @bold: THAT. yes. I think I've noted two or three times now in thread that I agree with it, pretty much as it stands. Not sure why my agreeing with it is overlooked either.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #304
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Thanks for that whole post. I want to focus on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I will say I don't relate at all to starting from a position of a trust and then booting them out if they violate it.
    I think that most Fi users will agree with starting from a position of trust, and most Fe users will feel as you do.

    That is a key difference.

    All, please weigh in and share on that point. Interested to expand it.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #305
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Thanks for that whole post. I want to focus on this:



    I think that most Fi users will agree with starting from a position of trust, and most Fe users will feel as you do.

    That is a key difference.

    All, please weigh in and share on that point. Interested to expand it.
    It may well be the key difference.

    As an INTJ, I ended up essentially having to "turn off" emotions, because of the tendency of Fi to too readily trust. I "use Te" to substitute for Fe, but it still sucks at the job, because it really doesn't know when to hand it over to Fi.

    Fe seems to be very capable of starting from a general distrust and to slowly and gradually warm to a person over time, possibly halting at "a particular level of trust" beyond which one is not allowed to cross.

    Fi, for me, is that binary, on/off. I trust you with my heart, or I simply don't hold much affection for you at all and interface (albeit kindly and respectfully) via Te. And from seeing other Fi people in my life, it is "mostly binary." Lately, however, I've been slowly changing this on purpose, letting people see more of what is inside me, but not letting them all the way in. Perhaps this is kind of a "backwards Fe?" Where I still keep a close guard on my feelings, but send out "Fi probes" to see if a person is OK?

    Anyway, it would likely behoove both Fe and Fi to recognize that these initial Fe/Fi states of distrust vs trust exist.

    As for developing the opposite function, I think such recognition makes it easier how to train "the other function" even though one's preference would remain preferred.

  6. #306
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    *smiles*

    For me it works the opposite way of Fe. I start people off with the benefit of the doubt. I'm curious about them and I will assume, as I don't know them, that they have their reasons for doing what they do. I will do recon however. As much as they will allow me to do. I'll read them, observe them, question why they do things, but unless they do something that violates my trust, and even *then*, I won't judge. I'll judge once I'm failry certain I've got their number. Once all puzzle pieces fall into place. *Then* I feel justified in judging them, as I know the judgement will be way more nuanced and infused with understanding of who they are, which is vital for me.

    It can also happen that they suddenly demonstrate a behavior that I find offensive. Once I figure out *why* they do it, I'll make the decision to keep them in my life and if so, in what capacity. The level of trust they get, at that point gets refined and cemented. Often, this is the trust given in a particular area of their personality (like their shticks ), and I'll do the same with other areas of their personality and behavior, until I have a complete picture. The reason I do it that way is to balance out fairness towards the other person and protection of my own tender heart. I admit, sometimes they blindsight me and take me by surprise, which results in a lot of heart ache. But then..that doesn't kill me, nor is it something I'm not able to handle. I just consider it a lesson for the future, to catch it if it were to occur again in another situation.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  7. #307
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    generally start from a position of guardedness that gradually opens if they see consistent behaviour that meets with approval to a certain standard.
    You just described me.

  8. #308
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    @bold: THAT. yes. I think I've noted two or three times now in thread that I agree with it, pretty much as it stands. Not sure why my agreeing with it is overlooked either.
    yep, basically. it seems like pretty much everyone agreed. and it was well-developed and well-rounded enough that i didn't feel like it was necessary to say much else on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    So if we say that Fi starts intra and Fe starts inter, then switching would be trying to start intra instead of starting inter, not exactly reaching Fi building that trust. As opposed to keep trying to reach intra. Would be like jumping ship for Xe instead of trying to reach Xi the normal way.
    hm, yeah. i think we still tend to keep our baseline trust levels, but we attempt to use the other function's strategies more. i'm in a couple social groups and they certainly require the practice of Fe strengths, but i still work within a more Fi paradigm even if i'm using Fe more behaviorally. like i'm still more attuned to inner workings, both mine and the other person's, even if i'm using interpersonal skills.

    actually i think one of the flaws of the "intrapersonal" multiple intelligence according to gardner is the notion that it only applies to oneself.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It may well be the key difference.

    As an INTJ, I ended up essentially having to "turn off" emotions, because of the tendency of Fi to too readily trust. I "use Te" to substitute for Fe, but it still sucks at the job, because it really doesn't know when to hand it over to Fi.

    Fe seems to be very capable of starting from a general distrust and to slowly and gradually warm to a person over time, possibly halting at "a particular level of trust" beyond which one is not allowed to cross.

    Fi, for me, is that binary, on/off. I trust you with my heart, or I simply don't hold much affection for you at all and interface (albeit kindly and respectfully) via Te. And from seeing other Fi people in my life, it is "mostly binary." Lately, however, I've been slowly changing this on purpose, letting people see more of what is inside me, but not letting them all the way in. Perhaps this is kind of a "backwards Fe?" Where I still keep a close guard on my feelings, but send out "Fi probes" to see if a person is OK?

    Anyway, it would likely behoove both Fe and Fi to recognize that these initial Fe/Fi states of distrust vs trust exist.

    As for developing the opposite function, I think such recognition makes it easier how to train "the other function" even though one's preference would remain preferred.

    nice points. "backwards Fe" is a good way to describe it, lol. it's Fe acting for the sake of Fi.

    i feel similarly about Fi's autotrust, but i'm not sure if i can/do turn it off... maybe turn it down... but off, i dunno... anyway i think that trust, for me, is based in some really core beliefs about humanity -- like that people are fundamentally good. i think it's hard for me to see Fi as binary because it informs almost everything i do.

    uumlau would you mind expanding on how you see Fi binary IRL?

    there are just a couple people in my life who cause my trust levels to plummet. like a guy i know who distrusted me and accused me of doing something i didn't do before he even met me. we're friends now, even though he still thinks i did it, but i can't shake the awareness of how guarded he is (not to mention shaking my pissed-off-ness that he was cold and accusatory before we even met), and for that reason, i don't ever really feel comfortable around him. one of my close friends, a Fe dom, is closer with him and she doesn't seem to mind filtering through what's crap and what's not - she finds it interesting and entertaining, if kind of stupid - he almost seems like a game to her - though she keeps him at a distance too. honestly i don't understand how he can function in the world, being so distrustful. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. he doesn't trust anyone, so they can't trust him, so he has no reason to trust them.

  9. #309
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    How, or why, we trust is not the result of a single jungian function. I'm waiting to see if someone claims Fe users go to Burger King, and Fi users go to Wendy's.

  10. #310
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You just described me.
    Do you have anything of value to add, or are you just here to take more pot-shots from the sidelines and contribute to an overall tone of distrust and indiscretion in this thread?

    You know my position very well; I certainly don't attribute behaviour to MBTI. I don't need your "winky" emoticons as some sort of indirect reminder. But I do have an interest in examining the functions to see if they correlate at all to communication trends I have noted here over time. Fundamental blocks between people, and I am interested to see how to bridge those gaps.

    Yet I grow tired of your insubstantial posts. You push the same weary rhetoric in every thread you participate in. Most of the time I ignore it, and when you post something of value I try to rep you and encourage your positive participation.

    Not that it makes much difference, it seems.

    But I see what you do. Just because I have the good manners not to point out your poor ones doesn't mean people don't see the "real" you in there.

    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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