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Thread: the Fi bias

  1. #81
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Fe-Fi conflict examples from real life

    one situation:
    1. Fe makes negative embellishment which is specific to context
    2. Fi gets pissed off because whatever was negatively embellished hurts its identity
    3. Fe wonders why Fi took it out of context
    4. Fi wonders why Fe didn't see the universality


    another:
    1. Fi is caught in difficult social situation
    2. Fe gets frustrated that Fi won't speak up / is not skilled enough to handle the situation tactfully
    3. Fi is emo because it is internally conflicted
    4. Fe wishes Fi would either speak up or get over itself


    i hope these are not too abstract.

    also, unless i'm mistaken... all Fe dom and aux are Js and all Fi dom and aux are Ps, right? that could certainly create tension.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Fe-Fi conflict examples from real life

    one situation:

    1. Fe makes negative embellishment which is specific to context
    2. Fi gets pissed off because whatever was negatively embellished hurts its identity
    3. Fe wonders why Fi took it out of context
    4. Fi wonders why Fe didn't see the universality


    another:

    1. Fi is caught in difficult social situation
    2. Fe gets frustrated that Fi won't speak up / is not skilled enough to handle the situation tactfully
    3. Fi is emo because it is internally conflicted
    4. Fe wishes Fi would either speak up or get over itself


    i hope these are not too abstract.

    also, unless i'm mistaken... all Fe dom and aux are Js and all Fi dom and aux are Ps, right? that could certainly create tension.
    I can actually see both those dilemmas going both ways... it's mostly the underlying motivation that determines it and I believe it really depends on what each person values which isn't necessarily dependent on Fe or Fi. For me personally, I have been on both sides of those dilemmas (and I primarily use Fe).

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    I can actually see both those dilemmas going both ways... it's mostly the underlying motivation that determines it and I believe it really depends on what each person values which isn't necessarily dependent on Fe or Fi. For me personally, I have been on both sides of those dilemmas (and I primarily use Fe).
    ah, that's interesting. maybe i've just described "human conflicts from real life", lol. i bet you're right about motivation. you know it's so funny, really, because we talk about Fe vs Fi and Ni vs Ne all over the boards, but i feel like the introverted/extraverted versions of the functions are much more alike than most of us tend to conceptualize them as being.

    as for the situations... i've been on both sides of the first one, but not as much until later in my life. i attributed it to developing better Fe as i've been growing up, but maybe it's just coincidence.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Fe-Fi conflict examples from real life

    one situation:
    1. Fe makes negative embellishment which is specific to context
    2. Fi gets pissed off because whatever was negatively embellished hurts its identity
    3. Fe wonders why Fi took it out of context
    4. Fi wonders why Fe didn't see the universality


    Negative embellishment? Like exagerrating? I can do that. I don't know if that's an Fe thing. Maybe I'm not getting it. Explain plz?

    another:
    1. Fi is caught in difficult social situation
    2. Fe gets frustrated that Fi won't speak up / is not skilled enough to handle the situation tactfully
    3. Fi is emo because it is internally conflicted
    4. Fe wishes Fi would either speak up or get over itself


    i hope these are not too abstract.

    also, unless i'm mistaken... all Fe dom and aux are Js and all Fi dom and aux are Ps, right? that could certainly create tension.
    I've always been extremely inclined to speak up, actually more so as a younger woman than I am now - I am known in my family for being "bossy" and being someone who will defend myself and other family members.

    This could be due to Te, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    It's actually a pretty interesting difference between Fi(Te) and Fe(Ti)-users, I'd say. It's the intention behind the action that decides blame or guilt to me. Not the action itself. And that's apparently very much different with Fe-users.


    This is like "commn sense" to an Fe user. From my perception its what Fe users see because we arent as connected to Fi as an Fi user. We have other functions to be true to that F becomes more of an external framework of navigating socially. For example a male ESTP is true to Se. The one I know will always make the decision on how well and what they wear, it becomes a part of them. Everyone has to be true to something, the other functions are more used as a learning tool. We can be fake for the sake of learning, for the sake of testing. As we learn we become competent, we can become true. Being true is not the same as "who we are", "who we are" is what we are learning, being true is being true to what we currently know so we can honestly figure out who we are.

    Fi will have a bias if it something that a person is being true to. Its no different then any other function. Ti will have a bias to its logic. Fe will have a bias to this external framework which puts "common" as the bias. You can always argue that that person is only doing it because it includes them, but honestly there is no possible way to remove yourself from common so this "can and will" always be used against you. Fi will always be selfish when it is "being true" to itself, it will always be biased.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #86
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Negative embellishment? Like exagerrating? I can do that. I don't know if that's an Fe thing. Maybe I'm not getting it. Explain plz?
    well, maybe i should just try to explain my thought process, since after Pitseleh's point i'm not convinced by my own post, lol (typical P )

    my thoughts were mainly along the lines that Fe is more context-oriented. someone with high Fe is more likely to say something suited to the situation, while someone with high Fi is more likely to not filter their opinion to fit the situation as much. this is not to say that Fe is not genuine, just that Fe is better in touch with what is situationally appropriate. Fi is more likely to state a universal (especially to defend some universal), while Fe is like, well sure, but i'm talking about in this situation.

    okay, here's an example: a Fe dom friend of mine points out that someone is unfriendly. i immediately think no, maybe she's just trying to communicate in her own way, etc etc etc, but my friend is totally right given context. on the other hand, if i point out someone being unfriendly, it generally goes along with a feeling of that person being morally "bad" on my part, while my Fe dom friend is more likely to point out that the person is behaving situationally.

    so it can go both ways - i think Pitseleh was spot-on about pointing out motivation and personal belief.

    I've always been extremely inclined to speak up, actually more so as a younger woman than I am now - I am known in my family for being "bossy" and being someone who will defend myself and other family members.

    This could be due to Te, though.
    yeah, i'm a fighter too, lol. for me i think it's a Te-Fi thing.

    my thoughts about this were mainly from the bad-dish-at-a-restaurant example used (was it in this thread?) at some point. on one hand, i can see someone with high Fe not wanting to upset the group, and thus not complaining about it; on the other hand, i can see them being confident in their social skills and knowing they can send it back with no problem. for a Fi dom/aux, i can see them not wanting to return it because they don't want to hurt the waiter or cook's feelings, though i can see them returning it if it offended them somehow (meat in it when they asked for a vegetarian dish, etc.)

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    This is like "commn sense" to an Fe user. From my perception its what Fe users see because we arent as connected to Fi as an Fi user. We have other functions to be true to that F becomes more of an external framework of navigating socially. For example a male ESTP is true to Se. The one I know will always make the decision on how well and what they wear, it becomes a part of them. Everyone has to be true to something, the other functions are more used as a learning tool. We can be fake for the sake of learning, for the sake of testing. As we learn we become competent, we can become true. Being true is not the same as "who we are", "who we are" is what we are learning, being true is being true to what we currently know so we can honestly figure out who we are.

    Fi will have a bias if it something that a person is being true to. Its no different then any other function. Ti will have a bias to its logic. Fe will have a bias to this external framework which puts "common" as the bias. You can always argue that that person is only doing it because it includes them, but honestly there is no possible way to remove yourself from common so this "can and will" always be used against you. Fi will always be selfish when it is "being true" to itself, it will always be biased.


    *ponders* Very enlightening and true...this would also serve as an explanation and reasoning as to why for Fi-users Fe-users can feel inauthentic, as to them the 'individual' is what counts, not what is agreed on by the masses, to put it bluntly. The Fe-user however, is very much being authentic as to them, this *is* who they are, this is what makes them who they are...
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  8. #88
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    Yep, I would second the motion on that. What we are doing is who we are, not just deciding what's socially expected. I can see just as easily as a Fi user what social conventions are stupid or what I wish to change. However, I may try to go about it in such a way that it ends up with the most change happening with the least amount of disturbance or upset to all parties involved. I think some Fi users see this as being sneaky or manipulative.

    I may privately think that someone is wearing something quite unflattering. I realize that some people may choose to actually offer a white lie and tell the person that they look great. I believe that is disingenuous. At the same time, I also realize that it would make the person feel bad to tell them they are wearing something quite ugly and unsuitable. I would be more likely to say nothing, or to offer my opinion only when it is solicited. Even then, I'm thinking with the end in mind: I want to be honest, and I want the person to end up with something better than what they have (if they aren't quite sure about it anyway). Therefore, I may indicate my opinion when asked, but state it in palatable terms to them, offering a better alternative. That way they don't feel I'm attacking their taste or their body type, but rather am offering an opinion that they can take or leave.

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    Sorry for not reading the thread yet, I just think this is too obvious to leave out (now, someone might already have said it on the other hand...).

    As someone with alot of Fi but low Fe I can usually see where people are coming from and respect their feelings, views and wishes. However, when I can't get someones train of thought, or understand what their values are, it's pretty darn straining to try and accept whatever they are doing, feeling or going on about. In that way I regard Fe as superior, it is respecting of feelings that it cannot understand.
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    I never knew we had a bias, I'm kind of chuffed.
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