Fe and Beauty

[Jaguar]

But what happens if the shampoo is not fresh?

Use head and shoulders. Your scalp will never flake!

 

[Ginkgo]

Use head and shoulders. Your scalp will never flake!

Fe thinks this storm is terrific! We can't disturb the general feeling situation.

 

[Jaguar]

Fe thinks this storm is terrific!

So do I. It's pretty cool. Okay, I'll be ENFJ. Thanks. I knew my type was off.

 

[Unkindloving]

So do I. It's pretty cool. Okay, I'll be ENFJ. Thanks. I knew my type was off.

What the friiiick, Jag?

Mystic.. what the friiiick?!

You boys will make me dig out that god damn whip soon enough, i swear it.

 

[Jaguar]

What the friiiick, Jag?

Mystic.. what the friiiick?!

You boys will make me dig out that god damn whip soon enough, i swear it.

Get a sense of humor!
Edit: You know what happens when you whip a wild animal, don't you?

 

[Unkindloving]

Get a sense of humor!

I gots one, but you need to figure out which function will help you engage in it.

 

[Jaguar]

I gots one, but you need to figure out which function will help you engage in it.

Leave my enaging function alone. You're too young for me.

 

[Unkindloving]

Leave my enaging function alone. You're too young for me.

That's why i've gone for your friend, you see. Sheesh, How ancient are you?

 

[Jaguar]

Sheesh, How ancient are you?

Same age as Night. Check his profile.

 

[Such Irony]

Looking at someone else's tase, say, in clothing or art, you judge it according to your own personal taste. If it doesn't comply with it, it's bad taste. If it does, it's good taste. That's how I define the difference anyhow. Sorry if what I just said doesn't make any sense, I am awful at expressing myself.

I see "good taste" and "bad taste" as more societally influenced. "Good taste" being more generally socially acceptable and "bad taste" not being socially acceptable (e.g. child porn).


I'd like to think I'm primarily influenced by Fi regarding beauty but in truth, Fe does play an influence. If I like a painting and almost everyone thinks its ugly or vice versa, I start doubting my own feelings about it and try to seek an underlying reason why my perspective is so different from the "norm." I'll also try to understand where the others are coming from. Of course there's never 100% agreement, so just because someone disagrees with me on whether or not they like a painting isn't going to change my point of view about it, but if it seems like *everyone* disagrees, then I start to doubt my feelings. Yeah, I know I'm weird that way.

 

[Ginkgo]

Lol,

Yeah, I overlooked how he explicitly stated that he disregarded what he thought because the object was enchanted by feeling tones.

Does anyone have a link to Jungian descriptions of other functions, or is this the one he used to describe the Feeling function before it was unpacked into the introversion/extraversion dichotomy?

 

[Jaguar]

I smell Ti burning in the oven.

 

[Ginkgo]

I smell Ti burning in the oven.

I'm trying to save it! Someone get a lie detector so we can resuscitate it and make sure it still bullshits lives!

 

[tinker683]

Hmm...not sure how much my Fe-aux plays into this, but I think my Si determines my sense of beauty more than anything. If something appeals to my value-system then certainly I'm going to find it "attractive."

My Fe just makes me aware of how people are feeling around me. Maybe in conjunction with my Si, it makes much more prone to avoid upsetting anyone and maintaining harmony, that I could see.

For example, I can look at a picture an artist friend of mine draws and while the picture itself may not do anything for me, I can tell that it did require a great bit of talent and time to produce it so I'll say it's a "good painting". Probably misleading, but I think it's important to recognize an artist's skill when it's clearly present (even if the painting doesn't speak to me at all).

 

[cascadeco]

Well, you see, people have been speaking recently about how we don't use all of our functions separately, which implies to me that people with Fe use other functions (Si, Se) to spot beauty, and simply utilize Fe to acknowledge more "objective" social standards of beauty. I know many, many times I have said things were pretty or something because I was put in an uncomfortable situation where I did not want to offend. I'm assuming this is what is meant by Fe's estimation of beauty in this passage - which means I'm also using a little Fe, or creating pseudo-Fe with Fi/Te understanding that it's more objectively pleasant to agree or compliment in certain situations rather than being brutally honest. In these cases, it is more "beautiful" to create harmony than to become an art critic or express ones self truthfully. It kind of goes along with Fe not wanting to make a scene.

I think there are a few things going on in the OP. (and, bare with me, I didn't get past the first half of the first page so haven't read the rest of the thread)

Firstly, yes, I can identify with what's being said in the passage in the OP as well as what marmalade is alluding to -- not seeing a point in creating a scene. Knowing that because Beauty is indeed subjective, and everyone has their own particular tastes, that in many ways there's no point in my telling someone something they own and find beautiful is distasteful or ugly. What is the purpose in my throwing my own subjective judgment out there, to judge theirs? If they actually asked me what I thought of it, and I happened to think it was horrible, I'd probably try to say something neutral, like, 'That's interesting. I can see why you'd like it.' (Note I wouldn't say *I* liked it). Turning it around, if someone told me that they found my interior decorating or my clothing ugly or distasteful, I'm not sure I'd be offended per se, but I'd at the very least be amused or find them silly and tactless to even feel the need to point that out.

Secondly, re. my own standards of beauty and 'taste', there are many mass-marketed, and thus I'd assume Fe-driven (or Fe / Si driven or SJ), standards of good taste, but I don't necessarily like or see the appeal of much of it, although some of it happens to line up with what I like. Re. paintings/artwork, I don't know that what I like has anything to do with Fe. I think when it comes to artwork, you have those who like what they like for certain personal reasons, but then you have a chunk of people who like what they like because it happens to be en vogue and because all of the critics praise it - rather like the 'keeping up with the jones'' mentality. I'm the former. Related to this, I also sometimes/often have an adverse reaction to artwork that I think is created with the sole intent of trying to be 'novel' and to make a statement. Shock value stuff. I'm not into that at all. I find it unimaginative.

Re. personal appearance, I'm influenced by certain celebrity beauty / Ideals and who I observe large chunks of guys being attracted to. It bothers me that I am, but I can't quite get away from it. What can I say.

 

[lucibelle]

Re. personal appearance, I'm influenced by certain celebrity beauty / Ideals and who I observe large chunks of guys being attracted to. It bothers me that I am, but I can't quite get away from it. What can I say.

That should not matter at all if you truly find it beautiful So that if you conciously tried to get away from it, wouldn't it be lying to yourself?
I understand the shame though...I'm very ashamed of many bands I like. And I wish I didn't like them.

 

[Such Irony]

I understand the shame though...I'm very ashamed of many bands I like. And I wish I didn't like them.

Yeah, I'm that way too. Also with movies and books and pieces of art. One time I even went far enough to remove from my collection what I felt suggested 'bad taste' on my part. And I regretted doing that and felt inauthentic and ended up buying some of the stuff I tossed back. I don't know why I feel shame over liking what I like. I know its not rational and it makes me wonder if I'm more of an F sometimes because I'm overly concerned about some others' opinions.

 

[21%]

^^

I can relate. I seem to go through phases of liking things, and when I'm out of that phase, it just seems so silly to have a collection of [whatever stuff] in my bedroom and I just tuck it away where I can't see it until the 'phase' returns

 

[Jaguar]

I think when it comes to artwork, you have those who like what they like for certain personal reasons, but then you have a chunk of people who like what they like because it happens to be en vogue and because all of the critics praise it - rather like the 'keeping up with the jones'' mentality. I'm the former.

Ever see the remake of the movie: The Thomas Crown Affair, with Pierce Brosnan and Rene Russo? Well, Brosnan's character is sitting in a NYC museum of art, eating a pastry, while he stares at his favorite painting of haystacks. To his right is a painting done by Monet, worth about a million bucks. One of the attendants comes in to speak with Brosnan:

"You know, you're an odd duck. Everyone goes right for the Monet."
Brosnan looks over at the Monet, "Well, that's very nice."
"Nice? Do you know what that's worth?"
"I just like my haystacks, Bobby"

Now, if you saw the movie you know that was a con.
Brosnan ends up stealing the Monet. Lol.

But, I chose that scene to illustrate a point.
Some people think because a painting is worth a million bucks, it means something. It could be worth 10 million, but it still doesn't make it beautiful.
People will like what they like, no matter what. But you don't have to say "God, what a piece of crap on your wall! Who painted that nightmare?"

 

[sculpting]

So he said Fe users will REALLY find things beautiful because they understand the other person find them to be beautiful?

This reminds me of 21% thoughts in the INFJ common issues thread in which she described how INFJs shift their light to match the color of the light of the other person.

I can kind of get this but oddly, in a weird reflective sense. I'd have to bounce the perception off my ISFJ for instance..

If she said "That painting is really beautiful." I would look at the painting, feel my own response of blah, look at her face and see the joy it brings her to find it beautiful expressed on her face, then, due to her happiness, I would look again at the picture and see it as beautiful as it made her happy. Then forever more it would be beautiful.

The object isnt beautiful, but the response it evokes in one I love is beautiful, thus giving the object the quality of beauty. I can totally get that.

or something like that....